EPISODE 10

New Year, New Habits! Maria and guest experts dive into setting realistic goals, making healthy habits stick, and exploring alcohol-free alternatives. Plus, Maria breaks down the current cannabis laws, their impact on businesses and consumers, and what changes could be on the horizon for 2025. Tune in for insights, inspiration, and practical steps toward real and lasting change for yourself and the industry! 🎧

Jan 24, 2025

The Psychedelic Scientist - Dr. Manesh Girn, Neuroscientist, UCSF00;00;06;19 - 00;00;59;24
Maria
Hello. I'm your host, Maria. Calabrese Welcome to Just Say KNOW. The show that spotlights the innovators behind cannabis newest products, and the groundbreaking ideas driving the legal cannabis movement. You're listening to Just Say KNOW on KCAA radio 1050 AM, 106.5 FM. First, before I dive into today's topics, I want to take a moment to acknowledge how KCAA is truly the station that leaves no listener behind and address just how deeply stunned and saddened along with everyone in our KCAA and greenbeelife community, I am by the devastating wildfires tearing through our Los Angeles County and all the surrounding areas.

00;00;59;27 - 00;01;42;25
Maria
The loss of homes, buildings, structures, iconic landmarks, favorite hangout stores, my favorite restaurants, businesses, as well as the suffering of humans, wildlife and pets. It's comprehensible and it's incomprehensible. Guys. My heart, my thoughts and my tears go out to everyone affected and it's all of us. Those who have lost their homes know someone who's lost their homes, lost their livelihoods, know someone who's lost their livelihood, and those who've tragically lost their loved ones, or know someone who's lost their loved ones.

00;01;42;27 - 00;02;19;00
Maria
I also want to take a moment to express my sincere gratitude and deepest admiration to the first responders and firefighters who are risking their lives to protect our communities. We owe them, guys. You know, it's easy to Monday morning quarterback. We're going to have a lot of time to debrief this. But, their courage and dedication in the face of these catastrophic conditions there is extraordinary as they are heroic.

00;02;19;03 - 00;03;00;09
Maria
These times are incredibly difficult. And my hope is that this show can provide a brief reprieve. A moment, a moment. That's it. A moment of connection and reflection as we cover topics that support personal wellness and resilience in the face of adversity. Today, I'll be talking especially about setting realistic goals for the New Year in the face of these new challenges, including how some people are turning to dry January as a way to cut down on alcohol consumption and explore healthier alternatives.

00;03;00;12 - 00;03;34;14
Maria
I'm also going to take a closer look the urgent need for cannabis policy reform, including rescheduling efforts and what that could mean for small businesses and consumers alike. Finally, I'm going to share predictions of what's ahead in 2025, from changes in cannabis laws to how these shifts could create new opportunities and improve access for everyone. I want to thank everyone for doing their part and for joining me today.

00;03;34;17 - 00;04;00;03
Maria
Please know my thoughts and everyone at greenbeelife's thoughts and support are with all of you during these unprecedented and challenging times. We're in it together guys. It's going to be all about fresh starts. But don't worry, the last thing we need now is your typical new year, new you conversation, which I promise you, this show is not going to be.

00;04;00;06 - 00;04;28;13
Maria
I know and appreciate how hard it is to make changes and to keep resolutions under the best of circumstances. I mean, heck. Studies show that the success rates are keeping. Resolutions are somewhere between 8 and 54%. So at best we have a 5050 chance of keeping them with odds like that instead of feeling defeated. Right. Or beating ourselves up this year.

00;04;28;15 - 00;04;58;03
Maria
Let's ditch the guilt and the overwhelm. Now more than ever, it's time to focus on small, manageable moments that lead to meaningful change and connection. Whether you're looking to be more thoughtful, manage the stress better. Eat healthier. Cut back on alcohol. Exercise more to lose weight. Save money or spend less money. Get more organized. Or rethink your relationship with cannabis.

00;04;58;05 - 00;05;24;20
Maria
I've got you covered. And please, please leave a comment on our YouTube channel about your New Year's resolutions. The ones you've been able to keep and the ones not so much. Later in the show, I'll explore how outdated cannabis laws like its schedule one status and the 2018 farm Bill are holding the industry back. And what rescheduling could mean in 2025.

00;05;24;22 - 00;05;49;15
Maria
Plus, I'll share predictions for the future of marijuana and hemp as the legal landscape continues to evolve. So sit back, try to take a breath, try to relax, and let's dive in with some of the smartest minds in the industry. Because this episode is going to be all about progress over perfection.

00;05;49;18 - 00;06;03;17
Intro Music
By 2020, Bank of America Merrill Lynch estimate that will grow to $35 billion. And many experts believe it could eventually reach $200 billion each and every year.

00;06;03;19 - 00;06;29;21
Intro Music
Like me today like no other. I just want everyone to see what a blue sky, blue sky I feel I got how I feel. It's me, your blue I can see so much farther. You're young, my rising.

00;06;29;23 - 00;06;36;22
Intro Music
You're my love. When?

00;06;36;25 - 00;06;42;01
Intro Music
I'm a butterfly who has only begun to give me a while to get it.

00;06;42;03 - 00;06;53;26
Intro Music
Had to live and cry. To appreciate life. Then what you give this way. For when you hold to me. When you're so close. Someone for the rain under your skin. When I leave I might.

00;06;53;26 - 00;07;01;10
Intro Music
So that I can be sure to remember. White skin.

00;07;01;12 - 00;07;34;04
Maria
All right. L.A, you're listening to Just Say KNOW. I'm Maria Calabrese, 1050 AM, 106.5 FM on KCAA Radio. Coming to you from the Inland Empire and beyond. All right, everybody. New year, new resolutions. We're going to build back better L.A.. Don't worry. We're going to stick together. This new year came in like a lion. We're going to weather it, and it's going to go out like glam.

00;07;34;07 - 00;08;01;05
Maria
So new year resolutions and how to make them stick, especially under the toughest times. Well, number one for me is to eat less processed foods instead of shopping my system completely. I'm going to commit to replacing one processed food per week with something more natural and healthy. Number two, for me, which relates to number one, it's cutting down on alcohol.

00;08;01;07 - 00;08;40;11
Maria
Number three for me is to be more present, more thoughtful, more intentional, not get so deep in the weeds, no pun intended, but you know, not get so focused, right. You get locked in or on distractions. I call them exits. You know, whether it's work or video games, TV bingeing, I sometimes forget to be intentional. And I want to be more intentional and more thoughtful toward my family, friends, coworkers, and community as a whole.

00;08;40;13 - 00;09;13;01
Maria
Coincidentally, mindful drinking and alternatives like mocktails or cannabis infused beverages are on the rise and reflect a growing desire for healthier habits. Did you know over the past decade, dry January has gained traction as people look to reset their relationship with alcohol? In fact, since 2018, Constellation Brands all right, Constellation Brands, they own Corona beer. They've invested over $4 billion in the cannabis industry.

00;09;13;03 - 00;09;55;00
Maria
See where this is going? So participating in Dry January, it's a heavy lift. Not going to kill you. It means committing to 31 days of sobriety. But the goal isn't just about abstinence, okay? Remember, it's about mindfulness and the health benefits of cutting down on alcohol, which I mean, it include improved liver function. Less sugar means less inflammation, better sleep, more energy, the peace of mind and feeling in control of your choices and making decisions aligned with your goals, especially your wellness goals.

00;09;55;02 - 00;10;31;09
Maria
So what is all this CBD in cannabis as an alternative to alcohol? Well, CBD drink mixes and cannabis infused mocktails. They're gaining popularity as innovative options. They provide a non intoxicating way to relax, unwind or even socialize without the downside of alcohol. I've tried myself several full spectrum CBD drink mixes and beverages. They have THC ones as well, but I've tried the CBD full spectrum ones as a fresh approach.

00;10;31;16 - 00;11;00;26
Maria
And I have to admit, I did experience relaxation, a sense of calm. I slept better and I didn't miss the hangover or health risks associated with alcohol. I do think for anyone participating in Dry January or simply looking to feel the calm or even the buzz without the alcohol, these alternatives guys, they're worth exploring. So I caught up with Doctor Joan Irvine.

00;11;00;27 - 00;11;35;14
Maria
She's a noted author, cannabis educator, and someone who has truly mastered the art of not only aging gracefully, but making small shifts that lead to healthy, meaningful habits that stick. Joan discussed why she swapped alcohol for CBD drink mixes and cannabis infused mocktails. And she shared a delicious and healthy man hat in a mocktail recipe minus the processed ingredients.

00;11;35;16 - 00;11;39;07
Maria
Let's have the cut out of all the vices.

00;11;39;09 - 00;12;05;17
Joan Irvine
Oh absolutely not. You just kind of have to change them up for something a little bit healthier for you than perhaps alcohol, but CBD drink mix is water soluble, which means it's greater absorption and it makes it faster acting. Plus, I think it's really important that I life is pre-measured. Once again, I don't have to think about anything.

00;12;05;20 - 00;12;13;06
Joan Irvine
You know exactly how much CBD you're getting. Ten milligrams per stick and the stick is recyclable.

00;12;13;13 - 00;12;18;25
Maria
Is it true that you gave up alcohol?

00;12;18;27 - 00;12;43;10
Joan Irvine
Yes it is. And a lot of my friends couldn't believe it because I'm go to happy hours. You know, I go to conferences, I go to events, and they're always serving alcohol. Sure. But what happened to me is I was starting to have some health issues. And all the research I did and you know I am a research nerd about what I put into my body now.

00;12;43;13 - 00;13;19;07
Joan Irvine
It all pointed to one common denominator and that was alcohol. Yeah that was a hard one for me. But also alcohol has aging effects. Alcohol is dehydrating which is bad for our skin and our overall health. So I turn to adding holistic to my new favorite mocktail. The stick is portable and discreet, so I can just put it into my purse and bring it with me.

00;13;19;09 - 00;13;33;19
Joan Irvine
And what I like about the mocktail is the ingredients and their nutritional value. I like the blackberries because they are full of polyphenols, fiber, and once again low in sugar.

00;13;33;22 - 00;13;41;00
Maria
And they're delicious. And lord knows we're all looking for delicious ways to get more fiber into our diets.

00;13;41;03 - 00;13;50;14
Joan Irvine
Indeed. And I also like the vanilla extract, too, for its antioxidant and anti-inflammatory properties.

00;13;50;16 - 00;14;18;17
Maria
Yeah, and the recipe is so easy to make. I use sparkling water instead of ginger ale. I didn't want to sugar in the ginger ale, and I didn't want the zero calorie because of the artificial sweeteners. But it's fantastic. It's delicious. And I put just the drop. I diluted it with the sparkling water of, guava juice. And this drastic, honestly?

00;14;18;20 - 00;14;24;17
Maria
I mean, it just. I do feel a sense of calm. It's really nice to unwind, too.

00;14;24;18 - 00;14;52;28
Joan Irvine
A lot of people want to have a drink in the evening after work in order to unwind, to socialize with their friends. And the holistic also has a stress stick formulated with lemon balm and CBD to help unwind without the alcohol or the sugar. Yeah. As we mature, I hate to say our bodies don't handle the alcohol as well as it did when we were younger.

00;14;53;00 - 00;14;59;20
Joan Irvine
And the alcohol can interfere with our sleep. Not what we need.

00;14;59;22 - 00;15;06;09
Maria
I can't tell you how much I enjoyed having you here today. Thank you so much, Doctor Joan.

00;15;06;11 - 00;15;19;07
Joan Irvine
Thank you. Maria enjoyed spending the time with you and helping people learn about all these things that are so good for our health. Cheers. I'll go with my mocktail.

00;15;19;10 - 00;15;47;14
Maria
I love Doctor John. Doctor John, thank you for sharing your personal journey. It's inspiring to see how small changes, like swapping out alcohol for mocktails with CBD made such a big impact on John's health. I know John personally. She was having a lot of issues. Western medicine wasn't finding solutions. She cut sugar from her diet, including alcohol.

00;15;47;15 - 00;16;15;10
Maria
She did it gradually. She did it slowly. And, she had wonderful results. So, you know, it's it's. But we don't have to take it just from from doctor John. It's worth taking a deeper look at how alcohol actually affects our brains. The science behind alcohol's impact on mood and our mood, memory, and overall brain health. You might surprise you.

00;16;15;12 - 00;16;40;07
Maria
You know, alcohol is often seen as a stress reliever or a way to unwind, but it comes with a lot of risks to our brain health. It impairs cognitive function and our memory over time. It interferes with the neurotransmitter activity, leading to mood swings, anxiety, even to even depression. And it can destroy. This is the big one, guys.

00;16;40;07 - 00;17;05;24
Maria
It can disrupt. Ready for this? Let me. I got to say it right. It can destroy it can disrupt brain plasticity. The brain's ability to adapt and grow. The brain's ability to adapt and grow. What do we have if we don't have the ability to adapt and grow? Especially during times like these? I mean, life, mother Earth throws all kinds of stuff at us.

00;17;05;28 - 00;17;33;26
Maria
The brain's ability to adapt and grow. We don't want that disrupted. So to better understand the impact of alcohol on our brains, I caught up with neuroscientists leading researcher Doctor Menez Gern to walk us through the effects of alcohol on the brain and why many are choosing natural alternatives like cannabis and even psilocybin. Yup, I said it. Psilocybin, aka magic mushrooms.

00;17;33;29 - 00;18;11;06
Maria
Doctor gern will explain what's happening in our brains when we drink alcohol and why. Cutting back even just a little can lead to major improvements in brain health and overall well-being. Let's have a look. Nash is a neuroscientist who's earned his PhD from McGill University. Doctor Nash's research focuses on understanding the effects of cannabis, but even in more depth, psychedelics like so I've been on the brain and how they can support our mental health.

00;18;11;12 - 00;18;45;07
Maria
Can you tell us what a drink does to your brain? It's not calming your nerves, right? It's killing. It's it's dulling. It's it's killing the brain cells. It's I don't I'm making the analogy to the antidepressants where it's a dulling effect. And when I talk to people who do psilocybin or consume cannabis, they say it actually relieves the anxiety and the depression to help them engage, not become the stoner stereotypical couch lock.

00;18;45;10 - 00;18;50;28
Maria
Could you speak a little bit? Is there truth to that? Are there studies? Is that your experience?

00;18;51;00 - 00;19;13;27
Manesh Girn
I think that's a really good point to make. The thing, the important distinguishing characteristic of alcohol versus cannabis and magic mushrooms is that alcohol is toxic for your brain. Cannabis is not, magic mushrooms are not. So alcohol is very literally neurotoxic in a way that these other substances are not. And it's interesting that alcohol is culturally sanctioned.

00;19;13;27 - 00;19;40;24
Manesh Girn
While these are demonized. But that's a whole other topic. But what you're alluding to was, how alcohol will dull and suppress our emotions. And as opposed to giving us an opportunity to actually face them and work through them and how how alcohol works in the brain is it, primarily activates particular brain receptors, which, the brain receptors that, reduce the activity of our brain cells.

00;19;40;27 - 00;20;01;05
Manesh Girn
And so literally, when you take, you drink a lot of alcohol, it's suppressing the activity of different brain cells. And this is also why people feel a bit more loose and disinhibited, our usual, kind of self-consciousness and our ability to regulate our, ourselves and our impulses is reduced because literally those brain cells are being turned down.

00;20;01;07 - 00;20;24;12
Manesh Girn
And same with our area is related to emotion. So like sadness or fear, those are all sort of tamped down, which perhaps can be useful to to socialize and talk to that attractive person you're nervous to talk to. But over time it's you really not making real growth and progress as an individual. You're using it as this kind of, crutch or, way to avoid your feelings.

00;20;24;14 - 00;20;50;28
Maria
And that's where the addictive effect comes. And you need it and you rely on it, whereas you're not having the corrective emotional experience. The difference if you're consuming, certain cannabinoids and terpenes or magic mushrooms, your brain is actually changing. And then you expose orients that.

00;20;51;01 - 00;21;16;05
Manesh Girn
Yeah. I think everything in moderation. Right. And something I want to add here, actually important is that if you look at the effects of alcohol on the brain, the amount of brain damage that alcohol creates, whether you're an adult or an adolescence, is far, far greater than cannabis. Because alcohol is directly neurotoxic. Cannabis isn't. Cannabis, over time, will create changes in your brain and, you know, in a more subtle way.

00;21;16;07 - 00;21;39;02
Manesh Girn
Whereas alcohol, which every 19 year old or whatever, 1921 year old, they're binge drinking out there, they're partying with their friends, they're doing all these things, which is terrible. And that would that they're the amount of lifelong brain damage that happens to like 90% of youth who drink like that is, you know, is massive. And it's like it's so culturally sanctioned.

00;21;39;05 - 00;22;00;22
Manesh Girn
Yet we're demonizing cannabis use, which you know, in order to, even if you smoke chronic heavy cannabis as a 19 year old, it's not going to be as harmful as chronic binge drinking. For your brain. And people don't realize this because, again, there's all sorts of, misinformation and stigma around cannabis.

00;22;00;24 - 00;22;20;05
Maria
So Willie Nelson's 91 years old and I could say, I don't know how many decades he's been smoking cannabis, but many decades. And, thank God it wasn't, alcohol. I don't know if he'd be here for his 91st birthday, let alone still doing concerts.

00;22;20;11 - 00;22;42;21
Manesh Girn
Because alcohol also speeds up dementia and Alzheimer's and cognitive decline. Alcohol does that in a way cannabis doesn't cannabis, it can even protect against that. CBD is used to help with people with Alzheimer's. You're not going to prescribe somebody vodka for recovering from Alzheimer's, you know, or rum or whiskey or what have you. That's just going to exacerbate it.

00;22;42;21 - 00;23;12;26
Manesh Girn
And so is there an important distinction? There's so much cultural arbitrarily around it and just, you know, do you wonder something promising? Maria. Actually, there's statistics amongst like Gen Xers and the younger generation, they're drinking less and less alcohol. And in fact, people are, you know, even going to parties and taking small doses of magic mushrooms, for example, like micro doses that are called, which is a tiny amount which you're not really it's not really a potent experience, but it can uplift your mood.

00;23;12;26 - 00;23;38;15
Manesh Girn
It can or might slightly change your experience and like mildly intoxicating, but definitely not like alcohol and not harmful for the brain like alcohol. So I think amongst the young people who were born, let's say late 90s, even 2000s, they're, drinking much less than many generations previously. And so there's a downward trend there. So they're, they're growing up so and we, we culturally we're growing up in certain cases.

00;23;38;15 - 00;23;54;28
Manesh Girn
And there's a lot of maturity around these things and awareness that people who, you know, might have grown up and were an adult in the 80s with all the nonsense that was peddled back then, just, you know, it's hard because that's what you were taught growing up. And so it's hard to question that. And there's resistance and fear.

00;23;55;01 - 00;24;14;16
Manesh Girn
But I think we need to be open to the facts and what's real and what the science is telling us. Otherwise, we're closing ourselves off from a potentially extremely beneficial, holistic resource for our health, right? Which is cannabis. And magic mushrooms to some extent.

00;24;14;18 - 00;24;53;19
Maria
I love Doctor Menashe gern. Guys, that, interview can be found on episode three of Just Say KNOW. It's titled cannabis, psychedelics, and Brain Health with Doctor Menashe Gern. You can find the podcast on greenbeelife.com. We even have a video version on GBL TV which is on greenbeelife.com. The podcast is also on whatever major third party, podcast platform you like best, but, Willie, Willie Nelson and Doctor Gern.

00;24;53;19 - 00;25;26;15
Maria
Boy, can we use a shot of them right now? Willie Nelson was, credited for saying that the biggest killer on the planet is stress, and we're under a lot of it right now. Right now we are, And we always are. I mean, life throws stuff at you, so, what Doctor Gern reinforces is when it comes to cannabis, or even psychedelics or natural alternatives.

00;25;26;17 - 00;26;05;02
Maria
You got to be more open minded, need more of the research. We need to remove the barriers for the research, because why cut ourselves off from something that could be potentially helpful without side effects? I mean, it's a win win. So he said he he just so brilliantly sheds new light and puts things into perspective. At the end of the day, it's all about feeling in control of our choices and making decisions, being capable of make decisions that align with manageable goals, manageable goals guys.

00;26;05;04 - 00;26;44;08
Maria
Small little changes aka resolutions. Whether it's committing to one alcohol free day per week, we're gradually building toward a longer challenge like dry January, swapping out a cocktail for a CBD infused mocktail or focusing on other stress reducing habits like short mindfulness sessions, a brief daily walk, brief, or engaging in a hobby that brings you joy. Small, intentional changes can make all the difference.

00;26;44;08 - 00;27;31;04
Maria
It's what Doctor Gern said moderation. Moderation. Microdosing. Remember the goal isn't perfection. It's progress. Progress. Consistent, steady progress that sticks. Start small. Celebrate the wins. Celebrate those back and watch how those manageable moments add up over time. Track it. Recognize it. Celebrate it. Pat yourself on the back. Say so. Talking about not wanting to cut ourselves off from natural substances that have been vilified, I you know where I'm going, right?

00;27;31;06 - 00;28;12;00
Maria
The case for cannabis rescheduling. This is perfect for. On the subject of new beginnings and for starting small, small, manageable. I'd like to turn to resolutions for the cannabis industry. You know, rescheduling the outdated classification of cannabis as a schedule one substance. That's a big one. It's it's it's grouped alongside drugs like heroin, an outdated designation that ignores it, ignores the growing body of evidence supporting its medical benefits.

00;28;12;03 - 00;28;49;28
Maria
This federal classification creates a massive hurdles, not only limiting vital research opportunities, but also imposing severe restrictions on cannabis businesses. You know, a key example would be section. Section a key example of of the barriers this presents would be section 280 of the tax code. Section 280 of the tax code prevents cannabis businesses from deducting normal expenses. Now okay.

00;28;50;04 - 00;29;28;18
Maria
It's meant to prevent businesses engaging in illegal operations from deducting expenses. Not reasonable. Absolutely. That's a good law. Okay, but why is the business of cannabis deemed federally an illegal operation? It's because it's schedule one. So as long as it remains schedule one, cannabis businesses are banned. The restricted one of the largest barriers to growth progress is section 280 E of the tax code.

00;29;28;20 - 00;30;08;05
Maria
It prevents cannabis businesses from deducting normal business expenses. Just think about it. Think about it. Imagine. Imagine if the Starbucks down the street that we go to, or any business were not able that you were running or that you visit. We're not able to deduct cost for their rent, their salaries, or even their utilities. This leads to exorbitant taxes and crippling financial burdens that make profitability nearly impossible, especially for a startup company.

00;30;08;08 - 00;30;42;10
Maria
And if this wasn't enough, cannabis businesses are locked out of traditional banking services because of its classification as a schedule one, many are forced to operate as cash only businesses, which comes with so many risks security challenges, operational edicts like you would not believe, and difficulties in securing loans or other financial services to help you grow. It's clear that this system has to go.

00;30;42;13 - 00;31;20;25
Maria
There's hope on the horizon. As I explored the case for rescheduling cannabis, I caught up with Seth Rutherford and Alan Shaw, co-owners of one of Massachusetts premium craft dispensaries, who are navigating these challenges firsthand. I began by asking Alan, despite record profits being reported in the cannabis industry, who who is making all the money? And what inspired you to go into the cannabis given to go into the cannabis business?

00;31;21;00 - 00;31;25;01
Maria
Given all the barriers to surviving legalization?

00;31;25;03 - 00;31;52;12
Alan Shorr
Okay, so the first question is really easy to answer. Who's making all the money? The the state health care for, like with that, we're in the feds. They're making all the money because they're they're taxing cannabis companies on income that they don't really have. And the tax that cannabis companies have to pay is different than any other industry in the United States.

00;31;52;12 - 00;32;02;29
Alan Shorr
So that's that's so that's the easy answer to your question. What's what inspired the question was what inspired me to do this. Yeah.

00;32;03;02 - 00;32;03;12
Maria
Yet?

00;32;03;18 - 00;32;29;17
Alan Shorr
Well, not understanding what the federal regulators were going to tax us on. And the, the idea that with any business, if you can run it efficiently and you, you can mitigate the tax issues, that you can and you have good partners and you know what you're doing, then you can you can make it work despite the tax burden.

00;32;29;20 - 00;32;41;24
Alan Shorr
So that's really what it was because I had no clue. I mean, not a scintilla of an idea of cannabis up until the time I met Seth and Chris, nothing.

00;32;41;26 - 00;33;00;15
Maria
There you go. So I could speak for I think a legal cannabis operator could face a federal tax rate of around 70% in addition to the state and local taxes. And on top of this, in laws Angeles, there's a 5% excise tax.

00;33;00;15 - 00;33;19;21
Seth Rutherford
So an easy analogy there. You know, if you're running a retail store and if you did $1 million a year in business and a half $1 million was the product that that retail store bought to resell, that retail store would pay tax on a half $1 million. The only thing you would be able to adopt is the product you bought.

00;33;19;24 - 00;33;39;24
Seth Rutherford
So you would you would pay tax on your labor, your parking, you know, your your snow plowing, anything above and beyond. And so you know, in the early days when the margins were high and I'm talking the early days of Massachusetts when we opened in 19. Margins were high. There wasn't a lot of retail stores. We were able to pull in people profits.

00;33;40;00 - 00;34;05;12
Seth Rutherford
As this industry continues to condense and get saturated, it's really become catastrophic for companies. And, you know, they're just not able to survive on margins because you need exponential margins to continue to pay the federal government. I think we're hopefully on the verge of coming the other way. You know, we we were down to like $4.50 a gram on the retail side.

00;34;05;15 - 00;34;28;18
Seth Rutherford
And when we get down to $4 a gram, producers can't produce it for $2 a gram, say, live. And so and I'm talking to retail at 450, so and when the retail store and these retail stores are Keystone ING, we're very close to the bottom if we're not there yet. And just in the last month, we've seen some very big operators close their doors in Massachusetts.

00;34;28;20 - 00;34;58;18
Seth Rutherford
And I think that that's going to continue. And so, you know, to get back to, you know, what Allen was saying about cannabis, you know, how it's how it's very unique, you know, instead of, you know, a lot of businesses where you're you're looking to increase revenues in cannabis, you're looking to reduce costs. You run that business on cost base, and you don't take risks if costs are associated due to the taxes, because those costs turn into income to you and you have to pay more phantom income.

00;34;58;20 - 00;35;18;01
Seth Rutherford
And so it's a very difficult business. So it's really a lean and mean business model to stay alive and debt free. Like I, I say, you know, people ask, well, how do you survive in cannabis? And it's facetious, right. But it's like, well, don't write a check cause every check you write is income to you, even though you're giving it to someone else.

00;35;18;04 - 00;35;41;12
Seth Rutherford
Okay. So it's you know, it's really you know, it's kind of the, you know, it says you really have to be very cognitive, of how you operate. And, you know, at two, five, three, we've always taken the approach where we don't have a huge wholesale department and we don't have a ton of marketing because a lot of companies get themselves in trouble where they they spend more to make less.

00;35;41;14 - 00;35;47;24
Seth Rutherford
And you really have to watch your bottom lines and be conservative and, and, and concentrate on yourself.

00;35;47;26 - 00;35;59;08
Alan Shorr
Well, I'll go one step further, Maria, unless you're at least in Massachusetts, unless you're vertically integrated, if you cannot make money, period. It's just impossible.

00;35;59;11 - 00;36;04;21
Maria
Can you explain to our listeners what a vertically integrated license means?

00;36;04;23 - 00;36;10;04
Alan Shorr
I can now, because Seth taught me. So I'm going to let Seth, my teacher, explain it better than me.

00;36;10;06 - 00;36;35;25
Seth Rutherford
So a vertically integrated facility, a vertically integrated means that you do everything yourself where you have your own cultivation, manufacturing and your retail outlets. And so, it's really in Massachusetts. It's really coming down to the verticals are able to, you know, weather this storm much easier than stand alone standalone retailers if they're in a very good location, don't do okay.

00;36;35;28 - 00;37;05;00
Seth Rutherford
Standalone cultivators and standalone manufacturers, unfortunately, are taking a beating right now. And it's really not fair because the wholesale rates, like I explained before, are so bad at $4 and, you know, at $2.25, if you want to, if you want to look at it that way, they're virtually not making anything. And, you know, a lot of these in a lot of the small companies are mom and pop companies like two, five, three that have invested everything they've have to get into this.

00;37;05;02 - 00;37;23;16
Seth Rutherford
And, you know, they're a lot of them are tied to all sorts of leases and personal guarantees. And it's and, you know, and and another really unfortunate fact in the cannabis industry is there is no bankruptcy. You go you go into receivership and you lose everything you own. And and I think that's why a lot of people hang on longer than one might think.

00;37;23;16 - 00;37;42;06
Seth Rutherford
They, they would. But it's, you know, it's it's definitely not all roses behind the scenes in the state. The state always. And the federal government always, you know, puts out how much sale, how many, how much sales there are. But it really doesn't equate to the to the profits behind the scenes.

00;37;42;09 - 00;37;45;22
Maria
What's the impact that this is going to have?

00;37;45;25 - 00;38;07;16
Seth Rutherford
Well, I think that's probably the same for any industry. As you know, desperate times are take people take desperate measures. And so I think that's really the unfortunate fact. And, you know, people need to stay alive. They need to eat, they need to feed their family. And you know, when, when, when, when you get into a situation like that, you know, you you probably at times are putting out the best products, do the, you know, do those type of reasons.

00;38;07;16 - 00;38;28;24
Seth Rutherford
So it's very unfortunate. I think any time you have an affluent business, you know, you know, those type of things are much easier to accomplish. And so, you know, it's it's it's it's, it's unfortunate where we're, where we are right now, as people are just trying to survive, you know, for two, five, three, you know, we don't break any.

00;38;28;24 - 00;38;47;02
Seth Rutherford
We don't try to break any rules or break any rules, and we really just try to stick with quality because as hard as it is to continue to stay on that line, eventually it will pay off. But it's just it's a grind. And, you know, we're edging our name into a piece of stone right now, and we're definitely not done yet.

00;38;47;02 - 00;38;56;14
Seth Rutherford
But you know, if you do it right and you continue to do it right, you will. There will be light at the other side. Nothing lasts forever.

00;38;56;17 - 00;39;37;23
Maria
All right, guys, there will be light at the other side. Nothing lasts forever. If you do it right and continue to do it right over time. You know, hearing these stories, it puts things into perspective. The challenges these dispensary owners and cannabis operators face, they're staggering. It's hard enough to thrive in any competitive industry, but the added weight of excessive taxes, limited banking options, and constant regulatory uncertainty and makes survival nearly impossible for well-meaning, legal and compliant business owners.

00;39;37;23 - 00;40;12;09
Maria
In the cannabis sector. These guys are passionate entrepreneurs. I better describe them as pioneers. They're trying to provide safe, reliable access to cannabis for their communities, yet they're forced to operate under conditions that feel more like penalties than policies. It's a stark reminder of how the current system not only holds the industry back, but actively works against the very businesses that are trying to pave the way for sensible and responsible use.

00;40;12;09 - 00;40;49;07
Maria
Legalization and reform. While I would like to see cannabis be scheduled completely all together, I am reminded that similar to making personal resolutions, we cannot overhaul our lives overnight. Instead, we have to focus on the small, consistent changes that are more achievable and will lead to greater progress over time. Stay tuned, because when we come back, I'm going to talk about how the 2018 Hemp Farm bill is holding back the CBD side.

00;40;49;09 - 00;41;01;02
Maria
The way to 80, holding back the marijuana side, even the CBD side as well. So quick word from our sponsor. Be back.

00;41;01;04 - 00;41;07;03
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00;42;01;16 - 00;43;00;09
Maria
Welcome back. You're listening to Just Say KNOW. I'm your host Maria Calabrese coming to you on KCAA Radio 1050 AM, 106.5 FM. All right, ally, hopefully we will continue to, hang in there. Be kind to one another. Support one another during these difficult times. Earlier we were talking about how, New Year's resolutions for the cannabis industry and, the impact that at least rescheduling to schedule three from schedule one would alleviate some of the burdens on the, cannabis industry and operators, especially through relief on, the the awfully punitive tax provision to 80.

00;43;00;11 - 00;43;36;06
Maria
But on the Hemp side, so on the hemp side, the 2018 farm bill was a landmark piece of legislation. It legalized hemp production in the United States, making a significant shift for the cannabis industry by removing hemp, defined as cannabis with less than 0.3% THC, from the list of controlled substances. The bill opened up new opportunities for hemp farmers, processors and businesses to thrive under a legal framework.

00;43;36;08 - 00;44;20;25
Maria
This development spurred innovation, particularly in the CBD market, facilitated research into various applications of hemp derived products, including and wellness, textiles, and bio based manufacturing. However, regulatory gaps such as unclear guidelines for minor cannabinoids like Delta eight and Delta nine have led to confusion and inconsistent enforcement, challenging the industry's growth potential. You know, it legalized hemp, but the impact of the regulatory gaps on the minor cannabinoids, it's stunning.

00;44;20;27 - 00;44;32;06
Maria
I caught up with Walter Chad Blackham, an associate at McMurray and Schuster Law Offices, to break down the legal ambiguities and what needs to happen.

00;44;32;09 - 00;45;02;13
Walter Chad Blackham
The biggest change in cannabis policy in probably the last 70 years or so, since the controlled substances Act was implemented, was the 2018 farm bill, and what the 2018 farm Bill did, was it further legalized after the 2014 farm Bill? It further legalized hemp and hemp derived, CBD products. So hemp under the bill is defined as 0.3% or less tetrahydrocannabinol, nine THC 9.3% or less.

00;45;02;15 - 00;45;29;05
Walter Chad Blackham
The fact that they defined it only with regards to THC nine is actually part of the problem. So we're getting a huge proliferation of all these CBD products, and many of them are legal, right? They've got the 0.3% or less THC nine. But what we've really started to see is this whole new market that was not anticipated by the 2018 farm bill, not anticipated by cannabis producers, but was anticipated by the gray market.

00;45;29;07 - 00;45;54;23
Walter Chad Blackham
And we're calling this the hemp derived cannabinoid or minor cannabinoid market. So these are products that contain 0.3% or less THC nine meet the federal definition of hemp, are processed into CBD. So are federally legal CBD, but then contain extremely large amounts of other cannabinoids ranging from, you know, delta e to thc v thc a cbn CBD.

00;45;54;25 - 00;46;23;13
Walter Chad Blackham
You know there's hundreds of cannabinoids. The list goes on forever. So we're running into this very unusual situation where we have some products that are following the letter of the law, but almost certainly not the spirit in this puts consumers and cannabis producers in a really tough space. You know, technically these individuals are working with hemp, which is not cannabis technically, so they can take all the tax breaks and all the deductions and credits that these cannabis businesses simply are not able to.

00;46;23;20 - 00;46;46;04
Walter Chad Blackham
And, you know, what do they get for following the rules and regulations? They have a 60% effective tax rate. They aren't able to work hand-in-glove with regulatory advisors the same way as other businesses. And it's really a shame. So the CBD market is in a really, really tough spot right now. For that reason, we have this whole hemp derived cannabinoid issue is producers and consumer.

00;46;46;04 - 00;47;13;01
Walter Chad Blackham
And really the consumers, I think are the ones who lose out here. You know, in many, in many states in particular that do not have medical or recreational or adult use cannabis, consumers are looking for a way to consume cannabis legally, and so many of them will turn to CBD. And what often happens is you'll have consumers and they'll drive by stores and they'll say, we have THC here, or Delta eight or by cannabis here.

00;47;13;03 - 00;47;38;26
Walter Chad Blackham
Yup. And what the consumers do not know is that these are hemp derived cannabinoid products. This isn't to say that all hemp derived cannabinoid products are bad. We could stand to get a little more information on some of this is the synthetic ones, I think. But we know things like CBN, CBG these are totally fine. But the problem arises when these hemp derived cannabinoid products are separated out from the typical cannabis regulatory regimes.

00;47;38;28 - 00;47;54;11
Walter Chad Blackham
The result is they don't they aren't subject to the same testing, same pesticide restrictions, same quality control. So you're really relying on the word of the manufacturer and producer rather than any type of consumer compliance efforts to verify what's going on.

00;47;54;15 - 00;47;57;19
Maria
What needs to change.

00;47;57;22 - 00;48;26;05
Walter Chad Blackham
So the first thing that needs to change, thankfully, it looks like it's going to be happening quite soon. And that's the rescheduling of cannabis now. So currently cannabis specifically again, tetrahydrocannabinol nine THC nine is a schedule one substance under the Controlled Substances Act that is the source of cannabis is illegality. The reason there is a complete federal prohibition and.

00;48;26;05 - 00;48;37;06
Maria
Not to not interrupt. Can you just explain to people because not everybody knows what that means to be public enemy number one? What does that mean? What is schedule one?

00;48;37;09 - 00;49;07;25
Walter Chad Blackham
Public enemy number one is right. So the Controlled Substances Act, places drugs on a schedule of 1 to 5, one being the most dangerous, with the least medical benefit in five being, the least dangerous with the most potent medical benefit. Cannabis. THC nine is currently a schedule one drug. Me. It has no currently accepted medical benefits and a high potential for mental and physical addiction.

00;49;07;27 - 00;49;40;15
Walter Chad Blackham
The the funny thing, as you may know, is the, FDA approved a CBD based, multiple CBD, based anti, seizure, epilepsy drugs for children of specifically Epidiolex. A little bit ago, which seems to fly in the face of that as well as the grass designation of CBD. But really, it's quite ironic in that respect that they're, they're saying in one hand, you know, it has all this danger, but at the same time, there's certain government patents on seeds and other production methods.

00;49;40;17 - 00;49;59;21
Walter Chad Blackham
So it really is quite an unusual dichotomy. But the first thing that really needs to happen is the change of schedule one, which it looks like it's going to be happening. So there's a petition to move it to schedule three recommended by HHS. Health and Human Services kicked over to the Department of Justice. And this is this is a fun little quick hit for any attorneys out there.

00;49;59;27 - 00;50;26;22
Walter Chad Blackham
But the, rescheduling process for cannabis is entirely unique, whole, unique. It does not bear any other resemblance to any other type of rule change or regulation change. Very unusual. And there's been some uncertainty with the new administration coming in whether the schedule three change is going to continue to happen. Thankfully, it looks like it will, but schedule three is going to kick cannabis, into the third level of the Controlled Substances Act.

00;50;26;22 - 00;50;51;28
Walter Chad Blackham
Me has some currently accepted medical benefit and a low to mild potential for, psychological or physical abuse. So we're not quite there yet. It's but it's a lot better. And what's really important about the schedule three designation is for medical cannabis businesses. And you touched on it so beautifully, Maria, that this is, a health and adult recreational use issue.

00;50;51;28 - 00;51;12;23
Seth Rutherford
But a lot of the gateway in the, the way we get our foot in the door is through the medicinal aspect. And I don't want to speak for you, but I think we probably share similar views. And so far as that was the primary uses, the plan is for medical benefit. But one of the great things about schedule three is these medical businesses are going to be able to use FDIC insured banks.

00;51;12;26 - 00;51;34;13
Walter Chad Blackham
Right now, cannabis businesses cannot use federally insured banks. They are this sounds, like, like a joke, but they're literally stuffing money into safes and then carrying tens of thousands of dollars in their car to their mattress. The schedule three designation is also going to open up a few more advertising and marketing restrictions for them.

00;51;34;16 - 00;52;10;05
Walter Chad Blackham
And is also going to enable medical, cannabis companies to potentially take credits and deductions. Currently, section two eight of the tax code, which I'm sure many of your viewers have heard the name, and if we have time, I have a fantastic story about how 280 came about. But currently to add prevents, cannabis businesses or any business dealing in a schedule 1 or 2 drug from taking creditor deductions, the effective tax rate for cannabis businesses, because this is like 60% in some cases, they're paying 60% of their revenue in taxes.

00;52;10;07 - 00;52;33;18
Walter Chad Blackham
Extremely high. Once we get to schedule three, this won't be an issue. So they'll have banking access. They'll be able to raise capital, they'll be able to utilize the US tax code in the way literally every other type of business can. You know, I think one of the questions we need to ask isn't just how do we harmonize the federal laws to make things better for them, but how they managed to survive so long the way things are?

00;52;33;21 - 00;53;04;12
Maria
Yeah, exactly. I mean, on the road, from normalization to legalization. I mean, anyone out there who has this entrepreneurial spirit or is coming at it from a well-meaning place, look at what you're saddled with. If if you think this is a green rush, think again. Guys, this right, right this way. We need to turn it into a green revolution.

00;53;04;12 - 00;53;42;16
Maria
Because how could anyone enter into this business unless nothing against them? But if you're a giant MSO, I mean, you have to. You have the lawyer up, there's just you'll get wiped out and fines and violations. And then with 280, if you can't write off your business expenses on top of having the burden of of legal expenses. But, like any in any other industry and then you can't even write those cost off.

00;53;42;19 - 00;53;53;08
Maria
I may the consequences and the consequence back to the consumer is we want well-meaning brands to enter the space and.

00;53;53;11 - 00;54;35;19
Maria
We do we want well-meaning brands to enter the space, and we want to support those well-meaning brands. I'll say that, a highlight of 2024 and some progress that the, cannabis advocacy and policy debates and combined with growing public support for reform, was made was with the Drug Enforcement Administration, the DEA initiated formal proceedings to reschedule cannabis from a schedule one to a schedule three substance under the Controlled Substances Act, and this process began with a preliminary hearing on December 2nd.

00;54;35;19 - 00;55;12;22
Maria
In 2024, the DEA headquarters in Arlington, Virginia, and we're making progress. We're making progress small and steady. The National Cannabis Industry Association, a wonderful, wonderful, organization to support it, has actually been granted standing to participate in the rescheduling proceedings. It's the only cannabis trade association that's been granted standing to participate, and they really could use support, in the rescheduling proceedings that are coming up.

00;55;12;22 - 00;56;06;29
Maria
They're scheduled to present their witness testimony on January 29th, 2025. So this involvement, it underscores the industry's active role in advocating for policy changes that could significantly impact how cannabis evolves in 2025. So my predictions for 2025, there is growing momentum for the complete legalization of cannabis at the federal level. This is being spurred by shifting public opinion and state level successes in 2025, it's plausible that Congress could pass a federal cannabis legalization bill, given the increasing bipartisan support for reform, but I think it's a long shot.

00;56;07;01 - 00;56;39;23
Maria
However, with the federal government potentially removing cannabis from the Controlled Substances Act, cannabis could become regulated similarly to alcohol or tobacco. This would mark a transformative shift for for everybody and especially for the industry, allowing states to establish their own regulatory framework while removing the uncertainty that currently exists due to the federal ban. More realistically, my prediction for 2025.

00;56;39;23 - 00;57;12;16
Maria
We'll see what happens with those hearings coming up in January. But, many advocates and experts in the space think we have a shot at rescheduling to schedule three. And, that would remove tax burdens and allow cannabis businesses to deduct normal business expenses. Operating expenses would open doors to banking services, would harness opportunities for medical research.

00;57;12;16 - 00;57;54;20
Maria
It wouldn't go far enough. But again, it would be a small step toward greater change. So, with that, I want to wish everybody, strength during this very, very difficult time in Los Angeles. And, let's just be nice to each other, guys. The overwhelm is great. But again, the the small and steady just, just being more patient when you're driving, helping a neighbor, bringing a meal to a first responder.

00;57;54;23 - 00;58;07;21
Maria
It'll go a long way. So in wrapping up today's show, remember New Year's resolutions, acts of kindness.

00;58;07;23 - 00;58;36;25
Maria
Movement toward change. It doesn't have to feel overwhelming if you start small and celebrate the wins along the way. And as the cannabis landscape evolves, let's let's stay hopeful and proactive about the changes on the horizon. Until then, imagine a future where cannabis is as accessible and accepted as any other wellness product, encouraging them to be part of the change.

00;58;36;27 - 00;59;08;10
Maria
Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next time and just ay KNOW. Stay strong. Just say know is a greenbeelife presentation airing live weekly on Friday afternoons from 4 to 5 p.m. Pacific on KCAA radio and KCAA TV. Archived audio episodes are on greenbeelife, greenbeelife.com, iHeart radio, Spreaker and most third party major platforms. For archived videos,

00;59;08;10 - 00;59;42;10
Maria
check them out on GBL TV on greenbeelife, YouTube and Rumble. To follow us! Our Instagram and Facebook is at Just Say Know Radio to apply to be a guest on the show or for sponsorship and advertising opportunities, go to greenbeelife.com/just-say-know and feel free to reach out to me Maria for any questions

00;59;42;13 - 00;59;50;10
Maria
at Maria@greenbeelife.com or (818) 758-6925.