Legal But Not Equal: The Fight for Cannabis Social Equity

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Maria
Hello. Hello and welcome to Just Say Know the Show, where we spotlight cannabis innovators, game changing products and the vision area is driving the legal cannabis movement. I'm your host, Maria Calabrese, broadcasting on KCAA radio 1050 AM, 106.5 FM, the station that leaves no listener behind. Today I would like to close out Black History Month by discussing a topic that is both as urgent as it is long overdue social equity in the cannabis industry.

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Maria
As we celebrate Black History Month, we are called to confront some difficult truths. While the cannabis industry is thriving, the communities that have suffered the most from prohibition continue to be largely excluded from its opportunities. The war on drugs disproportionately targeted black and brown communities, tearing apart families and filling prisons with nonviolent offenders. Now, as legalization sweeps the country, those same communities are being left behind.

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Maria
This isn't just the cannabis. This isn't just a cannabis issue. It's a civil rights issue. And economic justice issue and a test of our commitment to fairness. Why should we care? Well, let's, let's have a listen to some folks that are anxious to let us know. It sounds like

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Segment Intro
It sounds like there's privilege or racism involved in the marijuana industry. I'm still waiting on my 40 acres and a mule right now, and I'm gonna put dubs on my MEU.

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Segment Intro
People who've been harmed by the war on drugs, in particular, that they want essentially those 40 acres in that mule as well, in this new budding industry.

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Segment Intro
What you really need to do.

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Segment Intro
Is go back in the 30s, the African-Americans make sure that they they were.

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Segment Intro
Basically users, and they were and they, basically responded. The worse of those drugs is because their.

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Segment Intro
Character make sure that they're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, they're rapists.

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Segment Intro
There's still a lot of people incarcerated. There's still a lot of people that need help.

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Segment Intro
My company and we're going public. We set aside $20 million to hopefully Equity.

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Segment Intro
Movement Supernova Women as an organization that sets forth to help women of color, become stakeholders in the cannabis space.

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Segment Intro
It's important for us, again, to be a part of the dialog, but it's also incumbent upon us to be social equity. We have to also be a part of the change. Some people get really scared when they see my crew come into the kitchen.

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Maria
The injustice doesn't just harm fledgling black entrepreneurs, it weakens the industry as a whole. A cannabis market without equity is one that repeats the sins of the past, where profit is prioritized over people and power is concentrated in the hands of, of, of of the few, the truly inclusive the industry benefits everyone. Me you consume hurts businesses and our society as a whole.

00;03;14;19 - 00;03;43;25
Maria
Today we're going to hear from a few of the trailblazers I've had the pleasure of meeting over the years, including social equity operators, scientists and attorneys who work with LA city and county governments, each doing their part to try to break down barriers in the legalize cannabis market. We'll explore the history of prohibition, the failures of current equity programs, and what must be done to right these wrongs, not just in theory, but in practice.

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Maria
So whether you're a cannabis connoisseur, you think Kush is just a fancy pillow. This conversation affects you. By the end of this show, I promise you're going to walk away with a deeper understanding of how equity in cannabis connects to justice in America, and what you can do to be part of the solution. So stay tuned, because we're about to challenge outdated narratives, uplift powerful voices, and push for the change the industry this country in you desperately deserve.

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Maria
Come on, let's get smarter with some of the brightest minds in the industry.

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Intro Music
By 2020. Bank of America Merrill Lynch estimate that will grow to $35 billion. And many experts believe it could eventually reach $200 billion each and every year.

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Intro Music
You make think bigger like no other. I just want everyone to see what I do. Sky blue sky. When I'm with you, I go higher. You look me up. Now I can see so much bother you. You're not rising.

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Intro Music
You're my love.

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Intro Music
I'm a butterfly who has only begun taking me a while to get it.

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Intro Music
Had to live and try to appreciate life.

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Intro Music
And what you give is worth it. When you hold me. When you hold me so close. Someone put a ring under your skin.

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Intro Music
When I leave my mind. So that I can be sure to my.

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Intro Music
White skin I used to be satisfied.

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Maria
Welcome back. Before we dive into today's conversation, it's important to understand why social equity and cannabis isn't just the buzzword, why it's a necessity. Legalization in and of itself. It does not guarantee diversity, access or inclusion into the industry without intentional policies, the same communities that have been harmed the most by prohibition will continue to be left behind.

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Maria
To truly grasp the inequities surrounding cannabis today, we have to look back at how prohibition was built on a foundation of racism and fearmongering. So I want to throw to the TV quick hit for more quick hits. You can tune in to green Bay life.com. Let's let's see what we've got here.

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Maria
Look up Harry Anslinger, 1937 Marijuana Tax Act and really understand what the rationale was behind the prohibition. Really understand that prior to the 1937 Marijuana Tax Act, marijuana was used. It dates back to the Bible. It was used as an anti-inflammatory for pain relief, for the pain associated with with childbirth. So understand the history and then you have to read.

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Maria
If you only read one thing about it. Jack Herrera. The Emperor wears no clothes. Many people will tell you that that's what.

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Quick Hits
Changed their views. The misinformation campaign was started in the 1930s.

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Quick Hits
America's public enemy number one is drug abuse.

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Quick Hits
Just say KNOW

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Quick Hits
An unwinnable war fueled by lies fought against the counterculture and married to racism. But the times they are changing.

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Quick Hits
Recreational marijuana now legal in New York.

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Quick Hits
I think this plant is finally going to get its day.

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Maria
I think this plan is finally going to get its day, and hopefully the people who brought it to America will. So, you know, cannabis wasn't always criminalized in the 1800s. It was widely used for medicinal and industrial purposes. But in the early 1900s, a shift occurred, one driven by xenophobia and racial propaganda. Mexican immigrants fleeing political and economic turmoil brought the cultural practice of smoking marijuana to the United States.

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Maria
Instead of embracing this new use and plant and crop. Politicians and media figures, most notably Harry Anslinger, seized the moment to demonize both the plant and the people associated with it. Anslinger, the architect of the 1937 marijuana tax Act, pushed the unfounded idea that cannabis led to violence and insanity, especially among Black and Latino communities. He tied Kanu of his use to jazz culture, claiming it made black musicians forget their plays and fueled moral corruption by using the Spanish term and now honor instead of cannabis.

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Maria
He ensured that the drug and the fear surrounding it was associated with Mexican immigrants. The result? A wave of discriminatory policies and disproportionate enforcement. By 1938, just one year after the Marijuana Tax Act was passed, just one year, Black Americans were already three times three times more likely to be arrested for narcotic drug violations than their white counterparts, and Mexican Americans are nearly nine times more likely, nine times more likely.

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Maria
Fast forward to the 1970s and President Nixon, he doubled down on this racially charged war. The Controlled Substances Act of 1970 classified cannabis as a schedule one drug alongside heroin. Effectively criminalizing millions more, you know. Nixon's own advisers later admitted that the war on drugs was a political weapon used to target black communities. And the anti-war activist? Making it a felony.

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Maria
If you become a felon, you can't vote. So the 1980s brought Reagan's war on drugs, which escalated mass incarceration, further devastating communities of color. Harsh sentencing laws and mandatory minimums ensued that Black and Latino individuals face disproportionately severe penalties for nonviolent drug offenses. Even today, despite similar usage rates across racial groups, black individuals are still nearly four times four times more likely to be arrested for cannabis possession than white individuals.

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Maria
Now, as legalization sweeps across the country, a multibillion dollar industry is emerging. But who is profiting and who is still paying the price? Well, to help us unpack these questions, I was honored to catch up with you that McDowell at a National Cannabis Industry Trade Association summit held in West Hollywood just a few months ago. Yvette is a seasoned attorney, a class act, a consultant and a fierce advocate for social equity and cannabis.

00;11;22;07 - 00;11;52;01
Maria
She has a background in law enforcement and public service, and now works to try to ensure fair access and justice for those harmed most by the war on drugs. Through her firm, Yvette McDowell consulting, she helped shape policy and empower communities to thrive in this emerging legal cannabis space. Consulting L.A. city and county governments. So I wanted to share a little bit of my conversation with her.

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Maria
Here we go.

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Yvette McDowell
Most people are familiar with the war on drugs. That's how social equity came about. What statistics have shown and data that's collected by the Department of Justice shows that there was a disproportionate number. Are communities of arrest for cannabis possession or cannabis use that impacted African-American and Latinos more than anyone else? Even though the rate of use amongst whites was about the same.

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Yvette McDowell
But when you look at the arrest statistics, an entirely different thing. What those arrests did, it really made it difficult for people to be able to take advantage of things. For example, housing benefits. You have an arrest record. It's going to go against you. It's you can't.

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Maria
Even vote if it's a felony.

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Yvette McDowell
That's right. You can't vote. I mean, housing, Social Security benefits. There's so many things that you are now, despite proportionately impacted on. And as a result of that, there was legislation passed by Senator Stephen Bradford out of the Gardena. I believe that stories from and he introduced what's called a social equity bill. What that does is it allows for the state to infuse certain amounts of money to help those who were convicted of cannabis convictions, to remove some of the barriers to entry to enter the cannabis industry.

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Yvette McDowell
And the barriers are high. It's very difficult to get in this space, but if you have been convicted many times, that would have held you back. So giving somebody a foot up to enter an industry that is a multi-billion dollar industry to take part in that, why wouldn't you give people that even help build the industry, give them an opportunity to come in to be able to build some legacy and hopefully pass it down to their family.

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Yvette McDowell
So that was the introduction of social equity.

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Maria
And that's the intention.

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Yvette McDowell
Yes.

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Maria
The theory. But now.

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Yvette McDowell
Theory.

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Maria
In reality. And really what happened? What happened.

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Yvette McDowell
There are lots of problems with social equity. You know, when we talk about, giving money to set people up in shop, many social equity applicants don't have the business acumen coming in. And as such, you said you were going to provide tool states. So where are the tools? You said you were going to give money in order to help.

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Yvette McDowell
Where is the money going? Where has it gone? And I'll give you an example of that. For example, social equity was given $15 million by the state. And when I looked at what enforcement dollars went out, it was somewhere around $160 million youth programing. I'm all for youth work and youth programs. They were giving youth programs 60 to $80 million.

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Yvette McDowell
I said, would you give a revenue generate rating industry social equity operators 15 million. I said, what is enforcement doing to generate revenue? What are the youth programs doing to generate revenue? Social equity is generating revenue.

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Maria
It's backwards.

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Yvette McDowell
It's backwards.

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Maria
And what's really maddening is those enforcement dollars I don't think they're enforcing. I mean, that's what.

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Yvette McDowell
I hear.

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Maria
I agree. There's for at least four. I see illicit dispensaries to everyone legal one walking down a everyone. Where are the enforcement dollars going?

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Yvette McDowell
I don't know, but I know they're not going to social equity, that's for sure. Why do we still have so many illicit shops? And a lot of them advertise. You go by, you see the Green.

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Maria
Wave maps, even on weed maps, even.

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Yvette McDowell
They advertise. So I don't understand why enforcement is not happening when they're making themselves so readily available for you. Law enforcement.

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Maria
And the consequences on this guys is it's just not it's not profitable. It doesn't lift up communities. It doesn't. It has a counter effect.

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Yvette McDowell
Yeah.

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Maria
So something that was supposed to be good is failing. It's failing.

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Yvette McDowell
Yeah. The state, in my opinion, has failed with social equity.

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Maria
Now that's in California. Are there any states that got it right?

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Yvette McDowell
I can't think of any offhand.

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Maria
I know, I know, I can't either.

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Yvette McDowell
I can't think of anything to say. California leads the way. I don't know, but if California's leading the way, then I'm sorry. Everyone's going to fail.

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Maria
Ship off a cliff. So we got to wake up people because, you know, how bad does it have to get? I mean, but today's that was one of the topics of today's discussion that you moderated with a very, very lively panel and one of just one of the many perks of being a member of the NCIA is. These subject matter experts.

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Maria
It's a place.

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Maria
For.

00;17;44;16 - 00;18;10;26
Maria
These great minds to come together and talk about conversations. Cannabis is prohibition. Its origins were based on racism going back to the 1937 Marijuana Tax Act. Yes. And then you go through the 70s with Nixon and then the failed war on drugs, which a lot of people don't understand. But you've got to get this, guys. It was a war on human rights and on science.

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Yvette McDowell
Yes.

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Maria
And this is a Madison plant that can help a lot of people and it can help the economy. But what were some of the other takeaways from, the lively panel you moderated today?

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Yvette McDowell
That you. You know, one of the biggest thing, I think the regulators are really faced with a difficult problem because they are at the whim of the city councils, the Board of Supervisors, to do what needs to be done. Money. They need money to run these programs, and they're not getting the money that they need. And as I share with my clients, you have to have money to put these programs together.

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Yvette McDowell
Because if you don't have the money to put the right technical assistance in place, you're going to be setting people up for failure, for sure. People coming in who really don't have a grasp and the business acumen of what to do, how are they supposed to get this stuff if you're not going to provide technical assistance to really help them?

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Yvette McDowell
And you say you want to help remove barriers, come on then help remove them and give money to the programs that need it.

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Maria
Exactly. And this is where everyone out there comes in. We've got to start with, you've got to understand the origins of the prohibition. Yes. You got to understand the inequity and the failed war on drugs.

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Yvette McDowell
Yes.

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Maria
You've got to understand what's at stake here.

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Yvette McDowell
That's right. That's right. You have to understand it. And that requires education.

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Maria
It requires education. And the reason you need to understand it is because we need your voice.

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Yvette McDowell
Yes.

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Maria
And you spoke about that. Can you speak a little bit about that?

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Yvette McDowell
Because I've been involved with NCIA for a lot of years, and I had the privilege to go to the Capitol and lobby for four years. And I'll tell you, when you walk into those offices of, some of the legislators and you talk with their staff, because most times you're meeting with staff, you're not meeting with senators or from members from the House.

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Maria
But if they're constituents, if we're rattling their cages.

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Yvette McDowell
Exactly. That's why I say all politics is local, and you have to start on the local level, get to know your political, pundits. I'll call them, for lack of better words. Get to know who they are and get to know what their concerns are, what interests them. And you really start having the conversation on cannabis on a local level, because they don't just elevate to the state or to the federal government just by a ballot.

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Yvette McDowell
They don't do that. You have to get to know them first here and then follow them as they elevate. And as you do that, you provided education to them. So they now can take a look at the taxes, how much and taxes are being collected. Where are those taxes going?

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Maria
And then you say there's no money for the social equity or the like. But I heard in California, right. There's a potential in July it'll be a 40% tax.

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Yvette McDowell
That's what I was told I I'm not an operator, but from operators that I do talk to and deal with, they are hurting and businesses are shutting down every day.

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Maria
Businesses who are trying to do it legally. Yes. They're not surviving legalization.

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Yvette McDowell
That's right.

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Maria
And that leaves the consumer vulnerable to the very dangers that these tax dollars are supposed to be going to agencies to protect them from. And it's not marijuana. It's bad. Now that it's unregulated.

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Yvette McDowell
It just keeps the illicit market thriving is what it does and makes no sense from where I sit. If you are really, really that concerned about eradicating the illicit market, then create a pathway for people to come from the illicit market to enter into the legal space. But you've got to lower these taxes. I think this is probably the most highly regulated industry around the taxes are crazy and crazy.

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Maria
Not only lower them, but proportion.

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Yvette McDowell
Yeah.

00;22;52;13 - 00;23;24;25
Maria
For things that make an investment in the in the community, in the people, in the future businesses and, you know, local politics. But what I, what kills me about it doesn't kill me. Well, fills my energy buckets about cannabis is it gets us talking about what you're saying. All politics is local politics. Cannabis is sparking a conversation that it really goes to everything, not just the issue of cannabis.

00;23;24;25 - 00;23;45;01
Maria
Yes. And look what's going on in the country. It's not just being on your TikTok. I know, no offense, but it's not just going and complaining or you've got to get involved. You've got to establish the relationship. You've got to make the relationship on the local level.

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Yvette McDowell
Yes.

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Maria
Hold the the politicians accountable.

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Yvette McDowell
Yes. No one likes being held accountable. Unfortunately. But it's the nature of the beast. And I believe this is where organizations like CIA comes in to be able to lobby, to hold people accountable for the tax dollars that they're spending. Where are they going? It gives us that chance to really educate people, and not just from the political spectrum, but even community wise.

00;24;21;11 - 00;24;28;21
Maria
Because if you don't know what the issues are and you don't know how they impact you, yes. How are you going to vote?

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Yvette McDowell
Exactly. You have to stay engaged. You have to stay informed. And I know as a member for me of NCIS, and it allows me to educate. And once you're educated, you have a much better understanding of what you are talking about and what you're voting for.

00;24;51;02 - 00;24;51;22
Maria
Exactly.

00;24;51;25 - 00;24;54;03
Yvette McDowell
Yes, you're doing it informed.

00;24;54;05 - 00;25;15;14
Maria
That's right. And especially for business operators. I mean, it was interesting at one of my big key takeaways, I had a chuckle today when they were saying, when, you know, people are coming in for the green rush who are motivated by the money, they're out of this business in 6 to 8 months. It's like, see? Yeah. They're like, yeah, this is not a green rush.

00;25;15;14 - 00;25;34;03
Maria
It's a it's a revolution. It's a green revolution. And I find everybody I mean more and more it's a they're called to it for. Yes. They understand the impact it can have medically and just on improving their lives.

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Yvette McDowell
Well, if you think about it, the indigenous population use cannabis medicinally for I mean, centuries.

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Maria
Centuries where it'd be great if Congress got a big circle, passed the peace pipe.

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Yvette McDowell
I would love to be a part of that table to see that happen.

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Maria
I would invest in the stream that comes in one of them kind of balances. I'm not going to name names, but.

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Quick Hits
That would be.

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Yvette McDowell
Amazing to see those who have been anti cannabis but don't know anything about Canada.

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Maria
That's the thing. It's it's they're misinformed. Yes guys this has been it's been in the shadows for eight decades. 1937 marijuana Tax Act. People were doing it. There'd be a little plant in the closet with the light that your mother would say, don't go near her. But she'd go in there when you were sick as a kid, and you're like, what's in there?

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Maria
This is been in the shadow of the only information we have is misinformation. It isn't. Everything old is new again. Doesn't it sound a lot like what's happening now?

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Yvette McDowell
Yes.

00;26;41;13 - 00;27;06;12
Maria
You can't be basing your decisions off of. Well, you can, but you're not. It's not going to benefit anyone to come up basing your your opinions based on propaganda and misinformation. And you know, the war on drugs is just saying no. And oh, but my radio show is Just Say KNOW with a K and a W. Hold on.

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Maria
Say KNOW K-N-O-W.Y You have to know before you jump to hay. No that's right. Or Y.

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Andrea Drummer
Yes.

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Maria
And we're not telling you to go in either direction. And your value systems your value system. But do it based on information.

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Yvette McDowell
Informed the cannabis use whether you consume or not, that's on you what and.

00;27;31;20 - 00;27;34;13
Maria
How and and whether it's responsibly.

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Yvette McDowell
Exactly. Same with alcohol. Exactly the same thing with food.

00;27;39;09 - 00;27;41;27
Maria
Anything, any responsible use.

00;27;41;27 - 00;27;53;24
Yvette McDowell
We don't want our kids out consuming. No, we do not want that. We know that. But how do we educate our kids if we ourselves are not educated?

00;27;53;27 - 00;27;58;19
Maria
That's right. And and and you're not even able to have an open conversation with them.

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Yvette McDowell
Exactly. Our kids, you.

00;28;00;19 - 00;28;18;15
Maria
Got to be able to meet them where they are exactly and talk to them about it. And with this scheduling, we can remove barriers to research to really find out what is the impact on brains under 21 years old. But we know what the impact of cigarets are. That's right.

00;28;18;18 - 00;28;43;12
Yvette McDowell
That's right. It's quite interesting to me. And I believe it's Miss All. Miss that has been doing a study. The government has been paying them for like 30 years to grow cannabis and study cannabis. I have yet to see one report come from all miss about cannabis impact. I keep asking that question. Wow. Reports.

00;28;43;14 - 00;28;43;27
Maria
Wow.

00;28;43;27 - 00;28;51;19
Yvette McDowell
You have federal government. You've paid all miss millions of dollars to grow and study.

00;28;51;24 - 00;29;07;20
Maria
Now this might be a conspiracy theory. I have not fact checked this, but some people speculate it's because they did that to come up with evidence of negative effects and they didn't find any.

00;29;07;22 - 00;29;09;04
Andrea Drummer
So they're not.

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Quick Hits
Releasing.

00;29;10;17 - 00;29;18;20
Maria
Anything now is isn't that that would be so wasteful to study something to to try to find what's wrong with it.

00;29;18;20 - 00;29;19;10
Yvette McDowell
Yeah.

00;29;19;12 - 00;29;36;16
Maria
I mean, come on, let's, let's, let's put opioids under that level of scrutiny. Yes. You know, but I could talk to you all day long. So about the National Cannabis Industry Association, how long have you.

00;29;36;16 - 00;29;41;21
Yvette McDowell
Been a member? Oh my goodness has it been ten years okay.

00;29;41;21 - 00;29;42;26
Maria
So a lot's changed.

00;29;42;28 - 00;29;48;29
Yvette McDowell
And yeah a lot has changed a lot. And.

00;29;49;01 - 00;30;03;05
Maria
I mean let's just fantasize and then we could be realistic. But what where what is where do you hope to see the impact that the national Cannabis Industry Association can make over, over the next decade?

00;30;03;08 - 00;30;05;17
Yvette McDowell
I would say this scheduling.

00;30;05;19 - 00;30;06;23
Maria
Oh, that would be great.

00;30;06;24 - 00;30;34;28
Yvette McDowell
That is one of the first things that needs to happen. Safe banking needs to be a priority. 280 needs to be I need a complete overhaul in these things. If we could do those three things, this schedule safe banking in place. Because right now it is still a cash carry business. For the most part. People are still being robbed.

00;30;35;01 - 00;30;37;00
Yvette McDowell
People are being murdered.

00;30;37;03 - 00;30;41;28
Maria
Which just reinforces the stigma and the negative stereotypes.

00;30;41;28 - 00;30;42;17
Yvette McDowell
Yeah.

00;30;42;20 - 00;30;59;26
Maria
It just reinforces that. I know I was raised a child there, I was horrified. I came to it medically, but honestly, it was hard to walk up to a dispensary. It's intimate with an armed guard. The, the you know, it's it really.

00;30;59;29 - 00;31;02;03
Yvette McDowell
That's what they have to have though.

00;31;02;05 - 00;31;04;19
Maria
Oh yeah. Do we have safe banking?

00;31;04;19 - 00;31;12;06
Yvette McDowell
Sure, sure. Banking. And why should cannabis businesses not be allowed to write off?

00;31;12;08 - 00;31;37;01
Maria
That's 280 that she's talking about. The cannabis businesses and operators flower touching cannot write off their business expenses. And then with, tax structure. And where is all this money going? They might be ahead in California at a 40% tax come July. Possibly. Their margins are small. Yeah. And then on top of it they can't write it off.

00;31;37;01 - 00;31;46;07
Maria
So it's almost like they're trying to squash the industry because how do you survive legalization? Doing it safely, responsibly.

00;31;46;10 - 00;31;48;09
Yvette McDowell
You can't you cannot.

00;31;48;12 - 00;31;56;03
Maria
And then you as a social equity person does. Someone who gets a license, they're giving you like Happy Meal money. Yeah.

00;31;56;06 - 00;31;57;18
Quick Hits
I mean, yeah.

00;31;57;21 - 00;31;58;25
Yvette McDowell
That's what is there.

00;31;58;25 - 00;32;05;10
Maria
Here. You get a dispensary in here. Here is money that'll get you happy. They'll go set it up and run it and let's.

00;32;05;10 - 00;32;07;13
Yvette McDowell
See how long it lasts. Yeah.

00;32;07;16 - 00;32;32;14
Maria
Which is such an exciting new frontier where you could create jobs and. Yeah, well, this is why we want to get the word out. We want to talk to the mainstream. I want to talk to the concerned parents. I want to talk to you. I want to talk to everybody. I don't blame you if you don't want it so, so many feet from your church or your kid's school or you.

00;32;32;15 - 00;32;54;08
Maria
But why? And let's have a conversation about that. Let's really understand it. Let's figure out sensible rules and regulations that will benefit everyone and lift everyone and communities up, especially the communities that were, I mean, on the war on drugs, the the communities that were destroyed.

00;32;54;15 - 00;32;58;19
Yvette McDowell
Yes. And destroyed is absolutely correct.

00;32;58;26 - 00;33;06;07
Maria
And I, you know, let's.

00;33;06;10 - 00;33;38;07
Maria
The cannabis industry was supposed to be a fresh start, an opportunity to repair the harm caused by the war on drugs, especially in communities of color. Social equity programs were designed to level the playing field, giving black and brown entrepreneurs a fair shot at success in this booming or blooming market. But as we take a closer look, it's clear that many of these efforts have fallen short.

00;33;38;07 - 00;34;06;28
Maria
And I mean, you know, there's smart people out there like that trying to figure it out. But let's start with Los Angeles. After speaking with her, I realized and learned so many things. The city has taken steps to prioritize social equity applicants, ensuring that new cannabis retail and delivery licenses go to those most affected by past drug policies, at least until this past January 2025.

00;34;07;01 - 00;34;31;17
Maria
They brought in the definition of impact to communities and expanded opportunities for equity ownership. But as we've seen these policies, we have to ask, are they working? And we know the answer. They're not, you know, they're not. In 2022, Los Angeles Times investigation found that equity applicants made up less than 8% of all of the cannabis license holders statewide.

00;34;31;20 - 00;34;59;06
Maria
Far from the sweeping change many had hoped for and in some cases, regulations, they've been revise the manipulated in ways that are benefiting political insiders rather than the communities this program or these programs were meant to serve. And compared to other cities, L.A. is approach has its own unique challenges. It doesn't have a top down approach. All the different.

00;34;59;09 - 00;35;41;20
Maria
It's a it's a it's a patchwork of inconsistent policies. For example, Long Beach requires licensed cannabis businesses to ensure 40% of work hours go to equity employees, while the state of California offers grants, fee relief and other resources to support equity at multiple levels. However, the major roadblock in LA is the sheer number of illegal dispensaries an estimated 3000 unlicensed cannabis businesses, compared to just 373 illegal dispensaries, 373 and how many of those 373 are social equity license holders?

00;35;41;22 - 00;36;12;00
Maria
You know, this creates an unfair marketplace where licensed and social equity businesses will license, generate general license businesses, and licensed social equity businesses struggle to compete against the illicit market. That doesn't have to follow the same rules or pay taxes. So what's the solution? How do we fix a system that, despite good intentions, it's still failing black and brown entrepreneurs?

00;36;12;02 - 00;36;36;13
Maria
That's exactly what our next panel discussions about. Shortly after cannabis legalization California UCLA Canna Club. Yeah, UCLA was one of the first colleges to institute a talent club. It's fantastic organization and I encourage everybody to look into it and support it. They were the first. And now many Canna clubs are popping up at colleges all over the country.

00;36;36;15 - 00;37;11;06
Maria
UCLA Canna Club hosted a powerful, powerful conversation on being black and cannabis. It was moderated by Danielle Van LaBerge from Canna Safe. And it had an incredible panel of black entrepreneurs and advocates who shared their personal journeys, navigating an industry that, several years later, is still plagued by the same deep rooted disparities. The panel included Winnie Bailey Whitney, the visionary behind Josephine and Billy's, one of Ellie's first black women owned dispensaries.

00;37;11;08 - 00;37;40;14
Maria
Inspired by historic t pads where black communities used to gather to consume cannabis safely. So if you haven't been to Josephine and Billies I have to go. It's in Los Angeles, Josephine and Billies. And, be sure to say hello to Whitney. Also, Bryant Mitchell participated. He's the founder of Black Star Forms. It's a cannabis company dedicated to quality, sustainability and creating economic opportunities for communities of color.

00;37;40;17 - 00;38;24;21
Maria
Rico Lavante formerly Le Rico Tarver he joined and he's a former football player turned media entrepreneur and advocate, using his platforms to challenge stigma and push for an inclusive industry. And none other than the wonderful Andrea Drummer, a celebrated cannabis chef and founder of elevation VIP. She's broken barriers in both the culinary and cannabis world. Each of them has firsthand experience with the barriers that I was discussing with the other, Yvette McDowell, about, and these barriers, they still exist today, whether it's access to funding, navigating regulations, or competing against the legal market.

00;38;24;23 - 00;38;34;12
Maria
So let's dive into their conversation and hear what still needs to change and how we might be able to move forward.

00;38;34;14 - 00;38;45;10
Panel
Thinking like, as we. I love you and you and what can I do to be social equity minded or can I be mindful of.

00;38;45;10 - 00;38;48;23
Rico Lamitte
Wow this is an awesome question, that's awesome question.

00;38;49;00 - 00;39;17;01
Rico Lamitte
My answer to that just be sensitive to people's feelings and needs. We've been through a lot as a culture for hundreds of years. There's lots of pain behind that. And, every time there's been an opportunity, we've had the rug swept out from underneath this. So just keep that in mind and be an ally. If you have, any doubt or any question about what is what is what I'm saying or what I'm doing, insensitive, insensitive, ask that's it.

00;39;17;03 - 00;39;49;18
Rico Lamitte
Like, this is not it's not there's no rocket science to it. Just ask. Right. Don't assume that somebody. Oh yeah, it's not a big deal. I would deal with it differently. Just ask bro. Like, is this nothing wrong with being white at all, like I promise. But, I would I would say just 90% of the issues that we deal with on the social end of a circuit are avoidable just by asking, is what I'm doing affecting you negatively?

00;39;49;18 - 00;39;59;28
Rico Lamitte
Is it okay for me to do this? Okay, let me say this. I let my white friends know that, and it's okay. It doesn't have to be an abrasive situation. Just ask questions. All good.

00;40;00;00 - 00;40;42;19
Whitney Beatty, Josephine & Billies, CEO
So supernova has been, kind of working right now to kind of come up with what we would like to see companies in general put into place in regards to, diversity issues. On a larger scale. So, you know, if, if you and, you know, three years from now have a cannabis facing business, what we would hope for you to be doing is to make sure that you're looking at diversity, not just on the bartender level, but in your C-suite, that you have those diverse voices that are across, you know, organizational, but, you know, so in your marketing that you're thinking about, you know, diversity also really in your buying, you

00;40;42;19 - 00;41;01;14
Whitney Beatty, Josephine & Billies, CEO
know, making sure that you're stocking not just, you know, things that are coming from large, white owned companies, but you've got Black Star on the, on the shelf, or you got Andrea's edibles on the shelf. Being able to include those, companies that are being fronted by people of color. So there is some, you know, more equity in there.

00;41;01;14 - 00;41;25;06
Whitney Beatty, Josephine & Billies, CEO
I think one of the things that kind of frustrates, people of color becomes the idea that, you know, the Jerome's in jail for selling cannabis, and Chad has opened a dispensary on his corner. This idea that, you know, we're not participating and people are still in jail. So if you make sure that on different levels, you know, especially on those power levels, that you've got participation across the board, that's how you become a good ally.

00;41;25;06 - 00;41;32;17
Whitney Beatty, Josephine & Billies, CEO
And there are good allies in this space. They are out there and they definitely exist. So as long as you keep your eyes open for that, you make a position.

00;41;32;20 - 00;41;48;23
Bryant Mitchell
And I would just, you know, piggyback on I would just say be proactive. That question was a great question. So be proactive. You know, don't don't wait on the city in a state to give you rules and regulations on how to, you know, implement social equity, right? You know, which your community sees, you know, where your community reflects, try to reflect that too.

00;41;48;24 - 00;41;54;12
Bryant Mitchell
You know, I mean, be cognizant of the people around you and empathetic. And I think, you know, that question was a great start.

00;41;54;14 - 00;42;10;25
Andrea Drummer
For exactly everything what they said. And please, please, please continue to be as courageous and brave in asking those questions and be a little bit.

00;42;10;27 - 00;42;19;28
Andrea Drummer
This being a social equity applicant and operator, could you tell us a little about the application process and if the program needs any refining?

00;42;20;01 - 00;42;51;08
Bryant Mitchell
Oh, that's the first question is really the the application process is thanks. Due to me getting raided and, you know, losing my livelihood and 2013, that's the price I paid to be associated with Candidates Day. That was the biggest piece of this. You know, it was happenstance. And thank goodness, the city of LA, and and the people that run the city that founded, you know, their responsibility to ensure that a social equity program was created, you know, due to the war on drugs and everything else.

00;42;51;16 - 00;42;53;15
Bryant Mitchell
The second part of that. Well, what was that again?

00;42;53;15 - 00;42;55;13
Maria
How does the program need refining?

00;42;55;14 - 00;43;20;00
Bryant Mitchell
Oh, yeah, as well as you. So you want to ask me that? I'm, I recorded on TV. I was so it's, so the shows will be for now. You know, where the grant and the people that were instrumental in putting the social equity program in play had every great intention in mind. The reality of it is realizing those intentions is totally different than creating them and and creating a program.

00;43;20;03 - 00;43;42;03
Bryant Mitchell
I think what the social equity program has done was you've given someone an opportunity to make it through an application process, but then when they make it through the application process, they don't have the knowledge, they don't have the funding, they don't have the, resources necessary to get something done. And that word is to me today, the issue with the social equity program.

00;43;42;05 - 00;44;02;14
Bryant Mitchell
To give you an idea of my background, I'm a social equity candidate. You're talking to a man that, you know, I graduated from undergrad, went to work for one of the best consulting companies in the world, did consulting for over five years, then went to the top five MBA. After getting my MBA, I came out and did mergers and acquisitions and strategy consultant.

00;44;02;16 - 00;44;23;09
Bryant Mitchell
I sat with CEOs and to help them understand what they needed to do. I can barely do the shit. So, you know, excuse my French, but this is the situation we put social equity candidates in without giving them any collaboration, any guidance. And I hope that we can remedy the situation based on where we're at that, you know, that's a daunting task.

00;44;23;09 - 00;44;41;08
Bryant Mitchell
And I think it's uphill battle. That's what blacks are saying. We're hoping to help people kind of, you know, cross this, bridge, a little bit better as we're trying to cross in the fields. But, you know, I thank goodness for social equity, but, you know, I'm, I'm interested to see where it's at in two years.

00;44;41;10 - 00;44;43;20
Bryant Mitchell
And hopefully we can help progress that.

00;44;43;22 - 00;44;54;03
Andrea Drummer
Yeah. Let's let's, let the other panelists speak about how they feel like social equity has impacted the city of La Rico. Looks like there's interested in this topic.

00;44;54;05 - 00;45;24;03
Rico Lamitte
So, yeah, absolutely. I actually, helped my company as we were going public. We set aside $20 million to social equity movements. The two biggest issues that I see. Number one, there's no affirmative action here. So like I was saying, like 60 years of plight, you know, for black and brown operators, black and brown families, we have at least three generations of black, brown men and women that have been incarcerated and killed.

00;45;24;05 - 00;45;55;09
Rico Lamitte
And you literally cannot say this law is to help black and brown people. Great idea. Poor execution. Second thing is, California decided to act when, legalization got passed as his own country. So you have different rules in every damn city. Yeah, there is no top down program. So Oakland is very different than LA. La is very different than San Fran.

00;45;55;09 - 00;46;30;04
Rico Lamitte
San Fran is different in Sacramento. You got different people with different needs, and it just doesn't look good for at all. And it's tough. So it's really, really is is an issue that's near and dear to my heart. But just being realistic about it, I've got a lot of doubts about the program and my solution, I mean, in my head and my heart is I push the big companies like I did, you know, push my company to work with the people.

00;46;30;04 - 00;46;48;17
Rico Lamitte
You got to push the corporations to do it because they have the money. This is a capitalist society. That's what it comes back down to. Like Brian said, there's there's not a lot of incentive in California for these big companies to incubate without these folks, there's not a lot of incentive for the big corporations to come and help Whitney know Andrea.

00;46;48;19 - 00;47;07;10
Rico Lamitte
Like, hopefully we fall into those situations. Sometimes we do, sometimes we get lucky, sometimes we work hard and get discovered. But until there's that incentive for those corporations to do that, like, how many times have, has the government actually come through and follow through with the promises that they given us?

00;47;07;12 - 00;47;12;22
Whitney Beatty, Josephine & Billies, CEO
I'm still waiting for my 48 years.

00;47;12;25 - 00;47;20;17
Segment Intro
And and I don't know, I mean, cautiously optimistic about it, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

00;47;20;20 - 00;47;28;25
Andrea Drummer
Thank you so much for touching on the the fragment nature of the industry. I mean, although we have standards and regulations, there's so much.

00;47;28;25 - 00;47;30;11
Andrea Drummer
Gray area still.

00;47;30;14 - 00;47;39;29
Andrea Drummer
And like Rico is saying, you go to a different city and boom, do like a different world. Whitney, I would love to hear what you have to add.

00;47;40;01 - 00;48;05;27
Whitney Beatty, Josephine & Billies, CEO
Besides, Running Apothecary, I'm also a board member for Supernova Women. Supernova Women as an organization that sets forth to help women of color become stakeholders in the cannabis space. And one of the big things that we do with advocacy. And so supernova has been an advocate for equity, especially up in the bay from the get. And we have also very much noticed the issues that have come into play since equity has been in place.

00;48;05;27 - 00;48;27;02
Whitney Beatty, Josephine & Billies, CEO
And so two of the things that we've been talking about, are a, you know, Texas, right now, we're in a situation where cannabis is heavily taxed, heavily taxed. We're talking 35%, 40% taxes. Where's that tax money going in? Of course, because as.

00;48;27;05 - 00;48;50;14
Whitney Beatty, Josephine & Billies, CEO
Don't get me started. So so we've got all this tax money that is really not coming back to the community, at hand. We believe that those taxes need to be reduced. But even more so, we believe that a lot of that tax money could also be, used to be able to fund the black and brown businesses that are giving people that opt, you know, opportunity to have licenses for, but now cannot afford what it takes to run them.

00;48;50;14 - 00;49;16;19
Whitney Beatty, Josephine & Billies, CEO
So there's a great opportunity for them to be able to funnel money back, or to at least do business loans to these organizations who cannot vote because we can't get a regular business loan, you know, so you're sitting you're making a ton of profit off the backs of these communities that have been decimated for years. How about you, throw some of that money back on the other side of that becomes the idea of social equity came from the idea that we've got these communities, brown and black people that have been disproportionately disenfranchized.

00;49;16;19 - 00;49;35;18
Whitney Beatty, Josephine & Billies, CEO
We got people who were thrown in jail. We got people who were unable to get jobs. We got people who were unable to get education cut out of, you know, being able to do federal student loans that have really torn communities apart. And what we're saying is, because of all those things you went through, you can get this, you know, lucky shot at maybe getting a license.

00;49;35;20 - 00;50;06;04
Whitney Beatty, Josephine & Billies, CEO
But what if I don't want to own a cannabis business with it? Yeah. You still have these communities that had to go through all these things. So the only way that our, you know, that we give back to these communities is by offering them, you know, a better chance at a license. And we failed. We also need to figure out other ways that we can be able to reinvest in these communities that have gone through this, you know, and that can be done through the social mean, through our equity program, you know, where we're giving job training.

00;50;06;09 - 00;50;32;00
Whitney Beatty, Josephine & Billies, CEO
Well, we're giving opportunities for expungement. We're working with people to, you know, better community development, housing, whatever that is. We can't say that the only thing that we're going to come back with is a discount license. That's just can't be the plan. And so those are the things that also need to be looked at. And the equity program, because the issue becomes that, you know, Oakland came up with a program and they came up with a program.

00;50;32;03 - 00;50;47;05
Whitney Beatty, Josephine & Billies, CEO
Both of those programs are starting to get cloned. You know, people are just taking them, dropping them in new cities. None of the problems are being fixed. But now they're getting, you know, multiplying everywhere. And so we need to go back to the base. That's what things supernova is doing right now is going back. You know, let's look at this program.

00;50;47;09 - 00;51;00;19
Whitney Beatty, Josephine & Billies, CEO
When this stuff is not working, let's fix that before these problems become prevalent across the country, because everyone's pointing out, you know, what they've done. And yet we're not taking the time to fix all the issues that we started.

00;51;00;21 - 00;51;02;00
Panel
Thank you. That's really.

00;51;02;00 - 00;51;02;27
Panel
Great insight.

00;51;02;27 - 00;51;07;09
Panel
Oh my gosh. Okay, Andrea, did you have something to add to this?

00;51;07;11 - 00;51;24;12
Andrea Drummer
It's important for us again to be a part of the dialog, be a part of the conversation, be a part of advocacy. But it's also incumbent upon us to be social equity in our hiring practices, in our advocacy. In how we operate, in our sourcing of product.

00;51;24;14 - 00;51;43;04
Andrea Drummer
So we have to also be a part of, of the change. And, you know, for me, that's important not only in my partnering, but also in my practice. Some people get really scared when they see my crew come into the kitchen.

00;51;43;06 - 00;52;05;00
Andrea Drummer
My intention is to be social equity. Like, I want to set my intention to be able to say, okay, here's what we're going to do, you know, and not wait, you know, not hold my breath for someone because that's going to evolve. All of that is going to change because we are here, right? Because we are. That's going to change because we're a part of the conversation that's going to change.

00;52;05;02 - 00;52;23;05
Andrea Drummer
Because we are advocating that's going to change because of supernova women, that's going to, you know, so but until then, what are we doing? You know, and we have to set our intention and be diligent in that.

00;52;23;08 - 00;52;31;01
Andrea Drummer
Do we have any student questions?

00;52;31;03 - 00;52;31;23
Maria
That's pretty powerful stuff.

00;52;31;23 - 00;52;33;12
Andrea Drummer


00;52;33;12 - 00;53;02;14
Maria
Oh, boy. We need it. Definitely more than an hour today. And, unfortunately, we're coming up to the close of the show. But I will leave you with one last powerful excerpt from Doctor Brandi Cross. Doctor cross is a scientist, researcher, and advocate whose work explores cannabis through the lens of health, history and equity. Her words serve to just drives it all home.

00;53;02;14 - 00;53;21;16
Maria
It serves as a crucial reminder that cannabis legalization alone is not enough to undo the racist legacy of prohibition. And so let's, let's let's listen as she really brings the critical point home club.

00;53;21;16 - 00;53;26;09
Dr. Brandi Makeba Cross, Founder, The Pot Lab
We are very aware of the social equity program. Why is it so important.

00;53;26;11 - 00;53;49;07
Dr. Brandi Makeba Cross, Founder, The Pot Lab
So I'm going to try to kind of tie into the narrative, since we're talking about our various communities. So I'm Afro indigenous in case you couldn't tell. Usually can't. That means I'm black and I'm North American Indian. I'm a Choctaw Nation, although I'm registered as DNA or Navajo in our communities, we are up against a lot of things because cannabis means jail time.

00;53;49;07 - 00;54;16;26
Dr. Brandi Makeba Cross, Founder, The Pot Lab
Cannabis means the cops will kill you. Cannabis means a lot more severe penalties. And this goes into Latino communities as well, because anyone knows those are indigenous people as well. And it's not Latinos that necessarily pass this way that are being murdered by the police. Let's just say. So you're up against a lot of things, even if people believe in grandma keeps a secret plant in the closet that you don't know about, or that bottle of something that she gives you when you're really sick.

00;54;16;26 - 00;54;32;27
Dr. Brandi Makeba Cross, Founder, The Pot Lab
And so the same with black grandmas, too. They do it too. They hide it because all they know is you could go to jail. And even if they believe in the medicinal powers, it's like, well, it might heal you, but you might die. So, you know, it's this life or death gamble. And it has been in our communities for a long time.

00;54;33;03 - 00;54;59;21
Dr. Brandi Makeba Cross, Founder, The Pot Lab
So as a black person, I go back to the history of bringing back, slavery and bringing seed here. People's teeth were pulled out for saying the word dagga, which is in, different African dialects, means cannabis plant. They actually remove their teeth. So these, these things fall into this modern history where we have black, Latino and Indigenous people kind of being held back by the quote unquote, legalization efforts.

00;54;59;21 - 00;55;29;03
Dr. Brandi Makeba Cross, Founder, The Pot Lab
So the social equity, bills are really important. A lot of the licensing and I've read all the dialog. And one thing I had a problem with was you have to give up your indigenous federal rights for this license. Why would I give up federal indigenous rights to have a okey dokey license that I'm paying 10,000 and up a year to have when nobody's making that kind of money that cares about their patients.

00;55;29;05 - 00;55;52;26
Dr. Brandi Makeba Cross, Founder, The Pot Lab
Nobody's making that kind of money who labels correctly. Nobody's making that kind of money without oppressing someone else. So I have a lot of issues with the way prop 65 was written because, sorry, 64 prop 215 could have been cleaned up a lot better. Patient advocacy groups were really against it, and a lot of community groups were against it, because it took away the right for patients to cultivate for themselves.

00;55;52;28 - 00;56;23;21
Dr. Brandi Makeba Cross, Founder, The Pot Lab
And it took away their groups, their cooperatives, where people like us would get together and say, oh, hey, we have a this garage and we're going to grow 20 plants. We're going to split them between us, and then we're gonna have this medicine for a year. So there's a lot of problematic things. So the social equity programs are the only way to kind of bring back free cannabis giveaway farms, cooperative farms and, you know, low cost medicine for people who are truly sick because being sick costs a lot of money if everyone wants to have capitalism, which I personally don't.

00;56;23;27 - 00;56;49;23
Dr. Brandi Makeba Cross, Founder, The Pot Lab
But if we're going to live in capitalism, everything costs money. And so with nowhere to donate to and nowhere to give away cannabis, we're really hurting the patients while we're rewarding recreational users. That's just my opinion. So it's changed a lot. Now I see people getting into this industry like money signs in their eyes, when it used to be people with tears in their eyes saying, this is all it works for me.

00;56;49;23 - 00;57;18;13
Dr. Brandi Makeba Cross, Founder, The Pot Lab
I will die without this. Like people like me who cried at night with pain. Without it, people who needed access to this other thing. And I think without, stepping up and preserving those boundaries and those limits, around at least medical cannabis, we're going to we're going to lose the health benefits forever.

00;57;18;16 - 00;57;19;27
Maria
The whole medicinal.

00;57;19;27 - 00;57;49;28
Maria
The whole medicinal Is at stake. I mean, we will lose the health benefits forever. It's more than just the promise of a high. And, there's adult recreational. There's medicinal, but there's so much at stake and true reform. It must go beyond simply making cannabis legal. It it must actively dismantle the systemic inequalities that have long plagued this industry and the communities most impacted by the war on drugs.

00;57;50;01 - 00;58;25;13
Maria
You can't just make it legal, and you just can't make it easy for these people who are harmed and impacted and don't have the resources to run a business and think you're going to level the playing field by saying, oh, okay, here you can have a license to a dispensary running a legal dispensary. Well, that's another episode. But, there are systemic inequalities and there are historic and, people who are impacted by the war on drugs.

00;58;25;15 - 00;59;05;16
Maria
Like they said it, it's pretty tough when one of their when a black person sitting in prison and a white person is. Reaping the benefits off their backs on the opportunity that this multi-billion billion industry offers. So, you know, in closing, today, the responsibility to drive meaningful change obviously can't fall on legislation alone. There's a lot corporations can do corporations, investors and established cannabis businesses.

00;59;05;16 - 00;59;35;03
Maria
They've got to step up and commit social equity, not just as a talk point, but as an integral part of their business models. And I'd love to see government incentives for them to do that, you know? But they've got to step up, whether it's through mentorship, financial assistance or partnerships that provide real opportunities for growth, the private sector has the power to make the tangible difference where government programs have failed.

00;59;35;05 - 01;00;07;25
Maria
And it would be nice if the government would take responsibility, incentivize the corporations to do so. So anyway, we've got to close. I want to thank everyone for tuning in today. Your support means that everything, and I hope this conversation has inspired you to find meaningful ways to incorporate social equity into your life. Your curiosity and commitment to Just Say KNOW are what drives these important discussions, conversations that have the power to reshape how the world sees green.

01;00;07;28 - 01;00;36;11
Maria
But start from the bottom up view. You know all politics are local, and that is true now more than ever. So if you've enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to subscribe at greenbeelife.com. Leave us a review and share this episode with someone who you think could benefit from it. Until next time, I'm Maria Calabrese. You've been listening to Just Say Know on KCAA Radio 1050 AM, 106.5 FM of them also available at greenbeeife.com and wherever you stream your favorite podcasts.

01;00;36;13 - 01;01;10;18
Maria
Everybody, let's keep pushing forward so all we could do and take care. Just say know is a greenbeelife presentation airing live weekly on Friday afternoons from 4 to 5 p.m. Pacific on KCAA radio and KCAA TV. Archived audio episodes are on greenbeelife, greenbeelife.com, iHeart Radio, Spreaker and most third party major platforms for archived videos.

01;01;10;18 - 01;01;44;11
Maria
Check them out on GBL TV on greenbeelife, YouTube and Rumble. To follow us! our Instagram and Facebook is that Just Say KNOWradio to apply to be a guest on the show or for sponsorship and advertising opportunities, go to greenbeelife.com/just-say-know and feel free to reach out to me Maria for any questions.

01;01;44;13 - 01;01;53;22
Maria
I'm at Maria@greenbeelife.com or call me at (818) 758-6925..