EPISODE 2

In Episode 2 of Just Say KNOW, Maria Calabrese explores the world of pets and cannabis with Dr. Tim Shu, founder of VetCBD and a pioneer in veterinary cannabis education. They discuss how CBD can support pets dealing with anxiety, pain, joint issues, and seizures, and how the endocannabinoid system plays a key role. Dr. Shu breaks down full-spectrum vs. isolate products, safe dosing, and label tips, while Maria shares her personal journey that began with her dog. A must-listen for pet parents curious about natural alternatives and the evolving role of cannabis in veterinary care.

Nov 8, 2024

00;00;03;02 - 00;00;38;15
Segment Intro
In 2018, that CBD helped pass Assembly Bill AB 2215, allowing veterinarians to discuss cannabinoid therapy with clients. This legislation enabled informed decision making in pet health care, giving pet owners alternative treatment options with professional guidance. But the story doesn't end there. In 2022, vet CBD continued its advocacy efforts and helped pass Assembly Bill AB 1885, allowing veterinarians to take the next step and recommend cannabinoid therapeutics when they deem it appropriate for their patients health.

00;00;38;18 - 00;01;03;07
Segment Intro
These legislative wins showcase vet Cbd's dedication to advancing pet health and ensuring access to safe, effective treatments. Stay informed, stay engaged and together with vet CBD, let's continue to advocate for the best possible care for our beloved pets.

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00;03;28;23 - 00;03;57;10
Maria
Hello. hello. I'm your host, Maria Calabrese. You’re listening to Just Say KNOW, know with a k, k-N-O-Won KCAA Radio coming to you from the Inland Empire and beyond. 1050 AM, 106.5 FM on your dial today we've got a fascinating topic to cover pets and cannabis. Can our furry friends really benefit from the therapeutic properties of cannabis?

00;03;57;13 - 00;04;25;23
Maria
Kind of. You bet. But don't take it from me. To help us understand this evolving area, we're going to be joined by internationally recognized Doctor Tim Shu. Tim is the founder of vet CBD. Doctor Shu has a wealth of experience in veterinarian medicine, and a deep understanding of how cannabis can enhance the lives of our animals, from managing anxiety and pain to supporting joint health.

00;04;25;25 - 00;04;56;22
Maria
So if you're a pet parent like me, curious about natural alternatives or just interested in how veterinary and science intersects with cannabis, this is an episode packed with insights you're not going to want to miss. He's been featured on the Today Show and PR, CNBC, and in the New York Times. Doctor shoe's, passion for animal health started at a young age, and he's practiced everything from emergency care to general veterinarian medicine.

00;04;56;23 - 00;05;04;10
Maria
And I'm really excited to dive into his knowledge. Welcome, doctor Shu, thanks so much for being here with us today.

00;05;04;14 - 00;05;07;19
Tim Shu
Thanks for having me, Maria. I appreciate the kind words. Glad to be here.

00;05;07;22 - 00;05;28;13
Maria
Tim. No doubt your expertise in veterinarian medicine is extensive, but I have to say, I'm really curious about how you expand your knowledge from traditional veterinarian medicine to medical cannabis. Can you share a bit with us about your journey and how you even came upon cannabis? Yeah.

00;05;28;13 - 00;05;49;21
Tim Shu
You know, so I saw how well it worked for people. And for me, it's, it's really interesting because I was born and raised in Texas. And so, you know, cannabis has, you know, been heavily stigmatized in Texas. And so, you know, growing up, my understanding and my knowledge of cannabis was that it was, something dangerous, right?

00;05;49;21 - 00;05;57;08
Tim Shu
Because that's what we saw on TV was that, you know, if you ever smoke a joint, you're you're done for. You know, you might as well just throw your life away.

00;05;57;10 - 00;06;04;07
Maria
This is your brain on drugs. Just Say KNOW. Know is a four letter word.

00;06;04;08 - 00;06;21;21
Tim Shu
Any of those commercials growing up? And, you know, we growing up in Texas, we heard about people getting arrested for, you know, just, you know, having a joint on them, you know, it was just, it was a very scary thing. And then, you know, I moved out to California after I graduated from veterinary school.

00;06;21;28 - 00;06;55;13
Tim Shu
And, you know, I saw how different of an attitude California's, perspective on cannabis was. And so, you know, I took a deep dive into it and, you know, really looked at the potential therapeutic benefits of cannabis and why it was working. Well and people and why, you know, states like California embraced it so much. Because my, my perspective, my, my philosophical perspective is that, you know, as health care practitioners, we really have to explore all therapeutic avenues for our patients, right?

00;06;55;13 - 00;07;15;11
Tim Shu
We have to understand the potential of it. And even if there is no benefit, if there is no potential, then we have to say that, okay, we we took a, you know, a very hard look at it. And, you know, we don't think there's potential. But, you know, if you take a very hard look at cannabis, you will understand that there is a massive amount of therapeutic potential.

00;07;15;13 - 00;07;36;24
Tim Shu
And we're doing our patients and our clients a huge disservice if we don't advocate for them being able to access and use cannabis to improve their lives. You know, whether it's on the human side or the animal side, we have a moral and ethical obligation to be able to advocate, to for those patients to be able to incorporate cannabis into their medical regimen.

00;07;36;27 - 00;08;03;17
Tim Shu
And so for me, you know, when I was going when I was in practice, you know, there's, certain kinds of medications, that we frequently prescribed, you know, pretty much on a daily basis. And, you know, some of these medications, I would always have to warn the owners that, you know, signs to watch out for. And, and potential complications with some of these medications are things like GI ulcerations, liver damage, kidney damage.

00;08;03;24 - 00;08;29;02
Tim Shu
And you know, that that would scare the pet owners, right? You know, they they come in for one thing, and now they're concerned that, you know, they got to watch out for something like, you know, kidney damage or liver damage. And so, you know, for, for me, it's important that we look at all potential modalities. And if cannabis can be a better use for certain cases, then why not allow patients to be able to utilize that?

00;08;29;04 - 00;08;51;11
Tim Shu
You know, we certainly know that, for example, chronic pain can be very difficult to control. And, you know, especially given the current medications that are frequently used for chronic pain. But we know that cannabis can be very, very good for chronic pain. So, you know, why let these patients continue to suffer? Why not use cannabis and allow them to live better lives?

00;08;51;13 - 00;09;20;20
Maria
Exactly. I look at me. Case in point I've had four major spinal surgeries dating back to 1987, which coincidentally was after my first year of law school. So cannabis wasn't even on the table for me. But after my first back surgery, it just kept failing. You know, over the years I faced so many complications, continuous issues, including, well, you mentioned GI problems and bleeds.

00;09;20;23 - 00;09;58;22
Maria
I mean, GI bleeds associated with non-steroidal anti-inflammatory are responsible for over 100,000 deaths in the U.S. per year. And, you know, at the time, medical marijuana, that just wasn't an option for me. It felt like something dangerous. I ended up relying on blood. Speaking of dangerous opioids, analgesics, non-steroidal anti-inflammatory steroids, nerve pain medications, the list goes on, and we don't have enough time.

00;09;58;27 - 00;10;26;20
Maria
If I go through the list of all the different medications I to take to deal with the side effects that eventually caught up with me from these pharmaceutical drugs, there was such a strong stigma against cannabis that when I decided to dip my toe in the water, I use the same logic for myself that I did for my dogs, even though I saw that the full spectrum helped my dog's THC marijuana.

00;10;26;22 - 00;10;56;03
Maria
I started with an isolated CBD isolate, and as I felt more comfortable, I actually moved to a full spectrum and I then even moved to things that have a CBD THC ratio that are only available in legal states at dispensaries. I know I've used them myself and my pets for managing pain, but I'm also curious about how it helps with things like anxiety or other common triggers like loud noises or separation.

00;10;56;05 - 00;10;58;08
Maria
What have you seen in your practice?

00;10;58;10 - 00;11;19;03
Tim Shu
Yeah, that's, you know, you hit on one of the amazing things about cannabis is that it actually has so many different therapeutic uses. A lot of times, seemingly completely unrelated benefits, you know, so, for example, you know, we have, clients that use it for their pets to control seizures with epilepsy. And then we also have people using it for, chronic pain, like, you might see with arthritis.

00;11;19;05 - 00;11;23;23
Tim Shu
And then also to control noise anxieties because of all the fireworks that are going off.

00;11;23;25 - 00;11;59;11
Maria
Really interesting. You know, I can say I, I've seen firsthand with my older Shepherd that cannabis, particularly full spectrum CBD, helped tremendously. I mean, it's held for having shown such promise in treating a variety of conditions, in animals, pain management being a big one, especially for older pets with arthritis or joint issues. Now, a lot of our pet parent listeners, including myself, we're looking for natural ways to help our animals, especially as they get older.

00;11;59;14 - 00;12;07;25
Maria
Why don't you explain how cannabis works in animals and a little bit about the different formulations available?

00;12;07;27 - 00;12;34;25
Tim Shu
Yeah, sure. You know, so, a lot of questions unpack there. But, you know, let's just talk about how cannabinoids in general work within the animal's body. So, you know, cannabinoids will interact with a number of different receptors that are all throughout the body. But they will also act with what's called the endocannabinoid system. And so the endocannabinoid system is a bodily system that is intertwined with all other aspects of our physiology and animals as well.

00;12;35;02 - 00;12;58;01
Tim Shu
Because the endocannabinoid system is found throughout the animal kingdom, you know, it exists in dogs, cats, horses, ferrets, pigs, birds, you name it. It doesn't exist in insects. But throughout the animal kingdom, especially all vertebrate animals, it's ubiquitously present. And this system consists of the cannabinoid receptors that cannabinoids bind to, the endocannabinoids that our own bodies produce.

00;12;58;01 - 00;13;20;09
Tim Shu
So you and I, you know, your dog, we all produce our own cannabinoids within our body. And then the third component in the endocannabinoid system is the enzymes that make and break down these endocannabinoids. So what cannabinoids will do is they interact with this endocannabinoid system in the inter cannabinoid receptors to create therapeutic functions and therapeutic benefits.

00;13;20;12 - 00;13;45;11
Tim Shu
It also interacts with other receptors that are not a part of the endocannabinoid system, to help create these therapeutic benefits. So, you know, CBD is really interesting because it's been listed to interact with over 40 different cellular targets. So not just ones within the endocannabinoid system. You know, one example is that it has been shown to interact with the 5 HT 1A receptors, which are serotonin receptors.

00;13;45;13 - 00;14;10;16
Tim Shu
And that's hypothesized is that that's one way it helps to decrease anxiety. Going back to your other question about the differences between you know, all the different, you know, plants and products that are out there. When we we get down to the basis of it, it's all cannabis. But, you know, there's a lot of different terminology out there now that gets confusing to a lot of people, you know, what's marijuana and what's hemp?

00;14;10;19 - 00;14;31;29
Tim Shu
The the easiest way to understand it is that, you know, hemp is now a legal definition. So hemp is cannabis plants that are less than 0.3% THC by dry weight. So when you take the actual plant and you dry it out, if you test it, it has less than 0.3% THC, then that can be classified as hemp.

00;14;32;01 - 00;14;57;00
Tim Shu
If it has more than 0.3% THC. Then that's technically marijuana, even though marijuana is an outdated term, and we tend to use cannabis on the marijuana side, which gets even more confusing. But for us, as a company, we separate it as cannabis and hemp, even though technically hemp is cannabis. Are that CBD hemp line available online and in non dispensary retail outlets?

00;14;57;02 - 00;15;25;25
Tim Shu
Now when it comes to product formulation, there's a general category that CBD can be broke, CBD products can be broken down into that's full spectrum products, broad spectrum products and isolate. So you know, starting with the most simple is what we call isolate. So, CBD isolate is just 99 plus percent pure CBD. So when you're using that in a formulation or you're getting a CBD, you're not really getting any of the other cannabinoids that come from the cannabis plant.

00;15;26;01 - 00;15;33;22
Tim Shu
So it's pretty much stripped of everything else except just CBD. And then on the other end of that, you have what we call full spectrum products.

00;15;33;25 - 00;15;55;12
Maria
And we now know that there's approximately over 120 plus different cannabinoids, not just CBD and THC and only two, but then you've got full spectrum products, which include all the other compounds. Can you explain the difference and why someone might choose one over the other when it comes to their pets?

00;15;55;15 - 00;16;22;00
Tim Shu
Well, it gets a little bit more technical than that. There's there's been over 120 different cannabinoids that have been identified. Now, that's not to say that every single plant has all 120 of those cannabinoids, because the largest amount of, cannabinoids are found in THC, CBD, CBG, CBC, CBN, and then the other cannabinoids that are found tend to be much, much smaller quantities, if at all.

00;16;22;05 - 00;16;41;24
Tim Shu
So for example, you know, there's a lot of, plants out there that are very, very high THC but have very little in terms of any other cannabinoids. And then there's other strains out there that can have a really nice full spectrum. Whereas they have, you know, high amount of CBD, they have some THC, some good amounts of CBC and CBD as well.

00;16;41;28 - 00;16;45;27
Tim Shu
So it also depends on the the strain that you're working with.

00;16;45;29 - 00;16;50;22
Maria
Does that CBD hemp, for instance, work with any particular strain restraints?

00;16;50;25 - 00;17;10;10
Tim Shu
We work with a number of different ones. So what we do is we look at the cannabinoid profile. So, you know, because what we've seen over the years is that, you know, one person calling something, blue dream, maybe something completely different than what, another person calls blue dream, or same thing with AcDc or Ringo's gift or, you know, Harley Sue.

00;17;10;12 - 00;17;24;10
Tim Shu
So what we do is we look at the cannabinoid profile, so whatever the name is, we'll test it and take a look at what cannabinoids should test. So that way we know the actual cannabinoids that we're working with. And just rather than just basing it off of the strain.

00;17;24;10 - 00;17;29;24
Maria
And that's how you achieve consistency, which is so important when it comes to dosing. Right.

00;17;29;28 - 00;18;07;02
Tim Shu
So you know, CBD isolate is on one end. And then on the other end you have what it's called full spectrum. And so full spectrum does contain small amounts of THC as well as other cannabinoids, usually CBC and CBG and sometimes CBN. And the reason why this is important is because there's been a lot of studies, both preclinical studies in, you know, lab animals, in, petri dishes or test tubes, but also in humans as well that have shown that when using a full spectrum product versus an isolate, you actually get greater therapeutic benefits, you're able to use lower doses, and you can have fewer side effects than compared to using an isolate.

00;18;07;04 - 00;18;13;15
Tim Shu
So that's why we use full spectrum products. Because you get greater therapeutic benefits from a full spectrum product.

00;18;13;18 - 00;18;37;28
Maria
Hey, I really appreciate your explaining that in that way, doctor Shu, there's so much stigma around marijuana or THC or what they're calling now cannabis, which kind of gets under my skin because I don't think marijuana or THC should be validated as a dirty word, but okay, cannabis and it's easy to get caught up in all of that stigma.

00;18;38;00 - 00;19;03;01
Maria
But then you hear from experts like yourself and you realize, oh, there's so much more to the story about THC or marijuana or cannabis, whatever we're going to call it. I mean, THC has been vilified for so long, yet as you dig deeper, you're going to just find out more and more about its therapeutic value that it actually offers.

00;19;03;03 - 00;19;28;18
Maria
And then on the other side, there's all the hype around CBD as this miracle product with no THC or only trace amounts or only tiny bits and I'll admit, I bought in. I started my dogs on CBD. I sold it thinking it was the safest and most effective option and all. I'm not going to give them THC, right?

00;19;28;21 - 00;19;41;05
Maria
But it turns out it wasn't the best choice for them. So learning from experts about the benefits of full spectrum has been eye opening for me.

00;19;41;08 - 00;20;03;23
Tim Shu
Yeah. You know, one of the important things for people to realize is that, you know, THC is not purely just used for recreational purposes in humans. THC does have medicinal value. So, you know, it can be very good at helping with things like pain, inflammation, nausea and appetite loss. There's also some research that shows it potentially has anti-cancer benefits.

00;20;03;26 - 00;20;19;20
Tim Shu
That hasn't been as well studied. But certainly for things like pain, inflammation, nausea and appetite loss, it can be very beneficial. Now when it comes to our animal patients, we do have to be more careful in terms of how much THC we're using. So that's why the formulation, whenever there's THC involved has to be very careful.

00;20;19;26 - 00;20;46;08
Maria
Hey, that makes a lot of sense. But when it comes to THC, specifically our animals, dogs in particular, more sensitive, to it. Do they have a hypersensitivity or is it more about getting the dosage right? I want to just verify things that I've read saying THC can be more toxic to animals than humans. So is there any truth to that?

00;20;46;08 - 00;20;48;27
Maria
And how do you ensure it's safe?

00;20;49;00 - 00;21;12;08
Tim Shu
Well, so dogs are going to be more sensitive to THC. And the reason why is they have a higher concentration of CB1 receptors in a part of their brain called their cerebellum. And so, you know, with dogs, you have to make sure that you're using the appropriate amount of THC and using it in conjunction with the cannabinoids, because we know, for example, CBD can counter some of the side effects of THC.

00;21;12;15 - 00;21;31;08
Tim Shu
You know, for example, like the anxiety effects of THC. But interestingly enough, THC at very, very low doses actually helps to remove anxiety. It's at higher doses that THC starts can start to generate anxiety. And that's just because of the way, the different receptors function in different parts of the brain.

00;21;31;10 - 00;22;01;22
Maria
That is so interesting. I mean, I never even thought about the interaction of the different cannabinoids until diving in deeper. And, when you talk about the full spectrum and the interaction between the cannabinoids, the impact the THC has on the CBD, I it makes me think of it's the difference of taking a vitamin C supplement, which is just vitamin C extract and purely vitamin C, right.

00;22;01;25 - 00;22;40;24
Maria
And the difference between that and an entire orange. Whereas if you eat the entire orange, then the vitamin C is being combined with and impacted by all the other phytonutrients, not to mention all of the other phytonutrients you're you're receiving. So whole plant medicine that includes THC is not the devil's weed. So, I, I really appreciate the opportunity speaking with experts like yourself, because what you're saying is, is fact based and backed by science.

00;22;40;26 - 00;23;09;19
Maria
It seems like the science is getting better, would you say, with the proliferation of legalization, where we're moving the ball forward a little bit in that department, I remember I'm sure you you remember when it seemed we had to rely solely on preclinical data, preclinical studies. But from whenever I speak to you, I get heartened because it seems like the information has some more concrete data.

00;23;09;19 - 00;23;10;15
Maria
Would you say that's true?

00;23;10;22 - 00;23;48;21
Tim Shu
Yeah. You know, what's really interesting is that there has been a lot of preclinical research. You know, what that means is in lab animals, you know, Petri dishes and things like that. You know, since the 60s. Now we are starting to see more clinical trials in humans and animals as well. Now, especially since the 2018 farm bill passed, now with, increasing legalization, we'll start to see more and more of these clinical trials, that will start to back up the benefits that we've seen anecdotally, across the board in both humans and animals, for in the past few decades.

00;23;48;24 - 00;24;14;12
Maria
That is so exciting and hopeful. So we've covered the differences, between CBD isolate and full spectrum, but what can still be a bit confusing, at least to me, is this middle ground. What exactly is broad spectrum? I see that term marketed a lot, and it's not always clear what sets it apart from full spectrum or from isolate.

00;24;14;12 - 00;24;38;28
Maria
I mean, other than some manufacturers are touting that, like full spectrum, it has still has THC, but it has trace amounts that are non detectable in a drug test, which is important to humans depending on what state they live in and job they have. I don't know if that's a distinction that's as important for animals, but yeah.

00;24;38;28 - 00;24;41;21
Maria
What sets it apart? Broad spectrum from full spectrum.

00;24;41;21 - 00;25;03;04
Tim Shu
Yeah. So broad spectrum is essentially the THC taken out. So, you know, broad spectrum, it's done through a chemical process in which the THC is removed out of full spectrum. You know, a lot of times what happens is when that THC gets removed, we see a lot of other the might of the other minor cannabinoids like KVK and CBG tend to drop out as well.

00;25;03;07 - 00;25;18;28
Tim Shu
There are some, improved techniques out there now that preserve some of those minor cannabinoids like CBC and CBG. But generally what happens is broad spectrum is somewhere in the middle between isolate and full spectrum. What it does is it strips out some of those cannabinoids like THC.

00;25;19;01 - 00;25;42;00
Maria
I love speaking to you. I learned so much, and it's because you explain things in such a clear, concise and easy to understand, accessible way. There's no getting lost in the weeds with you, pardon the pun, I couldn't resist. And now a word from our sponsor.

00;25;42;02 - 00;26;17;16
Segment Intro
In 2018 that CBD helped pass Assembly Bill AB 2215, allowing veterinarians to discuss cannabinoid therapy with clients. This legislation enabled informed decision making in pet health care, giving pet owners alternative treatment options with professional guidance. But the story doesn't end there. In 2022, that CBD continued its advocacy efforts and helped pass Assembly Bill AB 1885, allowing veterinarians to take the next step and recommend cannabinoid therapeutics when they deem it appropriate for their patients health.

00;26;17;19 - 00;26;43;08
Segment Intro
These legislative wins showcase Vet Cbd's dedication to advancing pet health and ensuring access to safe, effective treatments. Stay informed, stay engaged and together with vet CBD, let's continue to advocate for the best possible care for our beloved pets.

00;26;43;11 - 00;26;49;11
Intro
Did you know THC and CBD are just two of more than 100 cannabinoids.

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00;27;42;23 - 00;28;06;26
Maria
You're listening to KCAA Radio 1050 AM, 106.5 FM on your dial. And now back to the show. Each week, we like to share consumer tips and insights on how to choose a quality product for our listeners. So I'd love to ask you, what are some key tips, for instance, that we should keep in mind when we're looking at labels?

00;28;06;26 - 00;28;32;00
Tim Shu
Sure. So, you know, one of the things is that you want to understand who's behind the product, right? Is is a veterinarian formulated? Do they have veterinarians on staff that, provide input into the formulation, into all the ingredients? You know, so for us, I formulate, all the products, and then we also have, veterinary nurses on staff too, because for, you know, for pet owners, this is something that is, therapeutic.

00;28;32;00 - 00;28;47;08
Tim Shu
It's meant to improve the quality of life of their pets. And so being able to get, you know, good customer support when they need it is one of the most important things for us. And so that's why we have a team of veterinary nurses on staff. So that way when anyone emails us or calls us, they're able to talk to veterinary professionals.

00;28;47;08 - 00;29;15;13
Tim Shu
And you know, if they want to talk to me, I'm more than happy to talk to them. I call call owners all the time. Just to, you know, educate them about cannabinoids. So, you know, being able to understand the formulation process and the, the customer support process is something that's really important. But also being able to access, things like a certificate of analysis because what, a lot of studies have actually shown over the years is that because CBD on the hemp side, is not, very regulated.

00;29;15;20 - 00;29;19;02
Tim Shu
And so what that means is that there's no testing requirements.

00;29;19;09 - 00;29;22;08
Maria
Testing requirements on the CBD hemp side.

00;29;22;10 - 00;29;24;16
Tim Shu
Right. On the cannabis side, it's very, very different story.

00;29;24;22 - 00;29;27;01
Maria
Do you think that will change anytime soon?

00;29;27;01 - 00;29;43;18
Tim Shu
I think so, but you know, it really remains to be seen. It's a it's a big question. But we know that on the cannabis side of things, it's a complete difference, you know. So just to give you an example, on the cannabis side of things, what we do is, we do more than what's required.

00;29;43;24 - 00;30;06;02
Tim Shu
So basically, in terms of what's required for every cannabis product in California, is the final batches have to be tested for potency so that whatever's on the label is accurately reflected in the product, and then also has to be tested for heavy metals, pesticides, solvents, microbial like E.coli and Salmonella and also mycotoxins. And what we do is we go a step beyond that.

00;30;06;03 - 00;30;31;12
Tim Shu
We do a triple testing procedure. So we also test the raw ingredients that we use. So this, the cannabis extract, the organic extra virgin olive oil that we use, we test all of those for things like pesticides, microbial solvents and heavy metals to make sure that we're only dealing with clean material. And then during the manufacturing process, we'll do a potency check on it to make sure that whatever is being produced is actually what's going to match up on the label.

00;30;31;15 - 00;30;54;01
Tim Shu
And then once everything's batched up and finalized, then it'll go for that final compliance test, which means again, it'll get tested for potency heavy metals, microbial solvents, pesticides and mycotoxins. So we test over and over and over to make sure that we get clean, safe, consistent product. And we do this on hemp side as well. We've taken our SOP from the cannabis side of things and implemented on the hemp side of things.

00;30;54;07 - 00;30;59;21
Tim Shu
So that way we go above and beyond to make sure that, again, we're only dealing with clean, safe, consistent material.

00;30;59;28 - 00;31;33;07
Maria
Clean, safe and consistent comes down to a, a label that reflects and backs with testing and good manufacturing practices. The purity and the potency of the product. You want to be able to discern that if it says it has this much CBD in it, it has that much CBD in it, and that if it says it has this much THC in it, it has truly only that much, or at least that much.

00;31;33;10 - 00;31;57;05
Maria
And we don't want to be having pesticide to microbial oils. And so you want to see that it's been tested for contaminants. All right. Well, Tim, honestly, it sounds like, the, the the manufacturing and testing practices that, that CBD hemp employs. I don't think the organic strawberries I would pass just saying.

00;31;57;05 - 00;32;11;03
Tim Shu
Right, exactly. Yeah. And then the licensed regulated cannabis market, that, that those cannabis products, are tested and regulated, and are cleaner than the food and the water that we drink every now.

00;32;11;05 - 00;32;32;27
Maria
Cannabis is a vital adjunct therapy, sometimes even a better option when Western medicine runs out of options. That said, we do have to consider the potential side effects. Have you seen anything clinically concerning with cannabis use in animals? You know, aside from the risks of overdoing it with the THC?

00;32;32;29 - 00;32;53;25
Tim Shu
Yeah. So, you know, you know, CBD is not completely side effect free. You know, fortunately, the potential side effects of CBD are very, very mild. You know, and this can happen for humans and animals as well. So side effects of CBD are, gi upset. So, you know, they, they can have, diarrhea or soft stools.

00;32;53;27 - 00;33;17;24
Tim Shu
They can also get, sleepy or feel fatigued. Okay. So, you know, now when you compare that side effect profile to a lot of the other side effect profiles of common medications like you had mentioned before, you know, from a clinician's perspective that is far, far safer than a lot of the traditional pharmaceuticals that, we tend to utilize on a daily basis.

00;33;17;26 - 00;33;26;18
Tim Shu
But, you know, that's something to be aware of is that, you know, CBD can have these potential side effects, even though they tend to be mild and are fairly negligible.

00;33;26;20 - 00;33;54;02
Maria
So relatively mild and negligible compared to some of the side effects associated with the pharmaceutical alternatives to treat the same ailment. All right. Now we're ready for one of my favorite segments. We're going to grow our know everybody with our expert doctor Tim Shue. So Tim, we've talked about potential side effects. We've talked about dosing. Now prior to the proliferation of more scientific research.

00;33;54;05 - 00;34;02;08
Maria
There's been a lot of this information has been based on anecdotal evidence. So what is the science saying? What is the research saying.

00;34;02;09 - 00;34;21;23
Tim Shu
Right, right. Yeah. And so so dosing is something that's really important. And that's why for dosing we always tell people to start low and then gradually work their way up based on the clinical signs or based on the response that they're seen, because the dose is actually going to vary from patient to patient. And for us to use.

00;34;21;25 - 00;34;40;26
Tim Shu
So we've seen some interesting cases where, you know, we have two dogs that are about the same size that are using it for the same condition, but the amount that they're using is different. And, you know, 1st May need it only once a day, 1st May need a twice a day. And some of the studies out there that have shown, differences in terms of absorption rates.

00;34;41;02 - 00;34;58;23
Tim Shu
So for example, it's really interesting. There was one study that showed that there was dogs that, you know, even though they got the same dose, some dogs had five times the absorption rate that other dogs did. And so this just goes to show you that the dosing needs to be done on an individualized basis. We have general guidelines that go by body weight.

00;34;58;29 - 00;35;12;18
Tim Shu
But what we always tell people is start at a lower level and then gradually increase that dose until you're seeing the optimal benefits from it. So, you know, the key that we're aiming for is we're trying to use the lowest dose that provides the maximum benefits.

00;35;12;21 - 00;35;39;23
Maria
What I really appreciate about your approach to dosing is you're honest. We start low and go slow, start low, see what your dog tolerates even in yourself, and then gradually increase as tolerated to the desired effect. That's, fantastic. And even a lot of the data is showing that this is individualized medicine. What works in one dog doesn't work in another, just like in humans.

00;35;39;23 - 00;35;45;27
Maria
Some people are super sensitive to medication. Other people it doesn't hit them as hard.

00;35;46;00 - 00;35;50;03
Tim Shu
Did you want to talk about some of the other uses of cannabis?

00;35;50;06 - 00;36;29;02
Maria
Sure, yes. Oh, good. You have time on your packaging. It mentioned that your product supports normal brain function. It also touched on its use for dogs with epilepsy and seizures. When I first saw the normal brain function indication, I didn't immediately connect that to those specific conditions. It seems like you have a general claims about supporting mobility, brain function, and GI health, but can you just elaborate on how your product specifically addresses conditions like seizures and epilepsy?

00;36;29;05 - 00;36;51;29
Tim Shu
Yeah. So, you know, this is one of the most common questions is what can cannabis be used for? Right. Because people are familiar with cannabis use, recreationally in humans. But even in terms of medical uses for cannabis in humans, people don't really know that much about it. Much less so when it comes to animals. So one of the most common questions is what can cannabis be used for in animals?

00;36;52;02 - 00;37;14;29
Tim Shu
And so I got this question so much that I came up with an acronym to help people remember more easily. And so the acronym is pain's so spelled PAINS And what it stands for is it stands for pain, anxiety, inflammation nausea and appetite loss and seizures. So that's not to say that those are the only things that cannabis can be used for.

00;37;14;29 - 00;37;21;22
Tim Shu
But those are the most commonly seen, ailments that cannabis is able to benefit.

00;37;21;25 - 00;37;49;02
Maria
An appetite loss. That's one I didn't even realize, cannabis could be used for. But it actually ties to the compassion Care Act. When medicinal marijuana went online in California due to the appetite loss caused by chemotherapy and Aids, victims were suffering from. So. Makes total sense. I have to say that when our senior dog was facing that issue, full spectrum was the only thing that had helped me.

00;37;49;08 - 00;38;15;09
Maria
But I want to caution listeners, my point of entry was a CBD isolate, and that didn't work. Don't give up. Don't give up, and don't be intimidated by the broader the full spectrum. At the time, for me, broad and full spectrum products weren't even available online or in retail stores. You had to go to a dispensary and oh my God, I found that so intimidating.

00;38;15;12 - 00;38;28;23
Tim Shu
Everyone should have the, the pleasure of going into a licensed dispensary. A lot of people have this, you know, this older notion of what a dispensary is.

00;38;29;01 - 00;38;54;12
Maria
I went to my first dispensary. It was very disorienting. And that's not comfortable. My body was reacting. Gosh, I hope no one else sees me. And how should I be doing this? And, oh, my God, you've got the armed guard. You're giving your I.D.? Oh, they don't take credit cards at the ATM, the funky looking ATM machine in the corner.

00;38;54;14 - 00;39;17;07
Maria
And then you get past all that and you're in a very nurturing environment. It's like an old apothecary, not the corporate CVS environment, but I felt that a lot of. What's an ave? How do you even order it? Would you like to spell this now? It was oh, but it was very.

00;39;17;09 - 00;39;35;06
Tim Shu
But in a legal marketplace. I mean, these dispensers were some of the most gorgeous storefronts that you've seen. So I do encourage everyone to, to visit their local dispensary. You know, a lot of people put, a lot of time and effort and they put their heart into it. And, you know, it's, the cannabis community is a wonderful community.

00;39;35;06 - 00;39;39;28
Tim Shu
In the, the licensed dispensaries are just beautiful dispensaries.

00;39;40;01 - 00;39;45;28
Maria
You know, they are like Apple stores. Do you provide support and education for the Bud Tenders?

00;39;45;28 - 00;39;51;01
Tim Shu
Right? Right. Yeah. So staff training is something that, we really focused heavily on.

00;39;51;03 - 00;40;10;11
Maria
Nice dice. It's very important to choose and support dispensaries that work with brands and manufacturers who offer the education and support to their staff. Good, good. You know, you have a hemp line available online and in retail stores, also available at greenbeelife.com.

00;40;10;18 - 00;40;34;04
Tim Shu
On the hemp side of things, we are also doing full spectrum, but the amount of THC is less so, you know, because of the way the hemp plant grows and because of the way, you know, the cannabinoids are extracted. So it does have small, small amounts of THC in there. But, our hemp, line is available online at that CBD hemp.com and then also through non dispensary retailers as well.

00;40;34;08 - 00;41;07;04
Maria
That's great that the hemp line is available online and in accordance with the farm bill, at least at this point in time, they're allowing online and in retail spaces hemp that has up to 0.3 percent THC. We're dealing with rules and regulations, but now the full spectrum hemp derived CBD products online that are more CBD to THC sometimes work as well.

00;41;07;06 - 00;41;33;29
Maria
So you have to check it out for yourselves. And that's why I think it's really important we build the community where we can gather anecdotal evidence and share it. Hearing people share their experiences with different products and ratios and their various applications is invaluable. For example, case, I had no idea that your product could help, with anxiety during loud noises.

00;41;34;01 - 00;42;00;25
Maria
I. I had it sitting on my counter for joint pain for my older German Shepherd and never thought to try it for the purpose of the anxiety loud noises caused in her. So speaking of loud noises, fireworks for instance, do you have any general tips for pet owners on how to keep their pets safe during loud noises? If their dogs anxiety is triggered and they tend to dash for the door?

00;42;00;27 - 00;42;12;17
Maria
Besides using CBD or cannabis, what advice do you have? This is an important topic for think for things like microchipping in case pets get anxious and want to run away.

00;42;12;19 - 00;42;46;13
Tim Shu
Yeah. So that's you know, that's that's something that's really, really important is that July 5th is actually the busiest time of year for animal shelters. And the reason why is because the night before, all the animals are trying to run away from the fireworks noise and so July 5th tends to be the busiest time of year. And so, you know, one of the most important things is to make sure that, you know, things like, your, your fences and your gates and your doors are secured, and then also to make sure that you have proper identification, on your pets, you know, whether that's in the form of, you know, tags and collars

00;42;46;13 - 00;43;01;21
Tim Shu
or microchip. So that that way they have your information, your address and their your phone number. So that that way, you know, if, your pet does get out and they are able to pick up your pet, they can at least, you know, find out who the right owner is and get your pet back to you. So, you know, those things are very, very important.

00;43;01;23 - 00;43;23;01
Tim Shu
You know, other things that, you can do is also, you know, things like behavioral modification, positive reinforcement. I think one thing that's really important is to understand, the animals mentality. A lot of times when people see that their, their pets are afraid, they will tend to, you know, talk to them in a, in a really soothing voice.

00;43;23;03 - 00;43;42;14
Tim Shu
And then the tend to try to give them treats to, to calm them or relax them. But this can actually have the reverse effect, because in essence, what they may be thinking is that you're rewarding them for that fearful behavior. And so, what I would encourage people to do is, you know, talk to a veterinary behaviorist.

00;43;42;16 - 00;44;04;02
Tim Shu
There are actually board certified veterinary behaviorist out there that deal with, you know, all kinds of behavior issues, especially with noise anxiety, to help them understand, you know, the steps that they can do to help their pet be a little bit less afraid of things like, you know, fireworks, loud noises and things like that? But just to just kind of help people understand.

00;44;04;04 - 00;44;08;27
Tim Shu
One understand, you know what effective positive reinforcement looks like?

00;44;08;29 - 00;44;38;26
Maria
That's true. A lot of their heads may not fully understand animal behavior or take a holistic approach like you do. We went to an animal behavior as to recommended desensitizing our dog that was terrified of loud noises by exposing her, gradually rewarding her tolerance along the way. It was comforting to positively reinforce her when she was freaking out to us, but very counterproductive for her.

00;44;39;01 - 00;45;09;26
Maria
So, like cannabis, low and slow time. I could talk to you forever, but we're going to have to wrap before we wrap up the one very important thing. We have a legal updates section, and I wanted to talk to you about the legality. I mean, can I get CBD for my pets from my veterinarian? So can you touch on the political landscape surrounding the issue and what that veterinarians can or cannot do?

00;45;09;28 - 00;45;27;11
Maria
It seems like there's been a lot of oversights in the legislation where in medical marijuana states, privileges afforded to physicians or osteopaths that apply to humans just weren't thought about in the legislation to apply to animals. So.

00;45;27;13 - 00;45;48;16
Tim Shu
Yeah, you know, it's a it's a tricky issue. About where where, you know, cannabis and hemp are in terms of the animal side of things. You know, human physicians have, you know, more protection. And but in California, we are leading, the country in terms of allowing vets to take part in, in the, in the picture.

00;45;48;18 - 00;46;16;16
Tim Shu
So in 2018, AB 22 15 got passed in California. And what that allowed for is a lot for veterinarians to be able to discuss cannabis with their clients. The issue with it is that it didn't allow for recommendation, with their clients. Now, granted, it's a term of art and in the, in the, in the law, it actually means, a written recommendation the way that the physicians would write for their clients.

00;46;16;18 - 00;46;40;21
Tim Shu
But, you know, unfortunately, the way that it's interpreted, many have interpreted it to mean that, you know, they can't even verbally recommend cannabis. And so that's, another bill that we're working on, which will actually allow for veterinarians to make recommendations in terms of cannabis products. And so that will help complete picture. And that would really help California lead the country.

00;46;40;21 - 00;46;47;05
Tim Shu
And really, quite frankly, the world in terms of, the integration of veterinarians into cannabinoid therapeutics.

00;46;47;08 - 00;47;08;14
Maria
Leading the world in terms of the integration of veterinarians into cannabinoid therapeutics is crucial. And indeed, on the path you are forging. Did you know that CBD leads the way in California's progressive pet health care legislation.

00;47;08;16 - 00;47;43;29
Segment Intro
In 2018 that CBD helped pass Assembly Bill AB 2215, allowing veterinarians to discuss cannabinoid therapy with clients. This legislation enabled informed decision making in pet health care, giving pet owners alternative treatment options with professional guidance. But the story doesn't end there. In 2022, that CBD continued its advocacy efforts and helped pass Assembly Bill AB 1885, allowing veterinarians to take the next step and recommend cannabinoid therapeutics when they deem it appropriate for their patients health.

00;47;44;02 - 00;48;06;10
Segment Intro
These legislative wins showcase vet Cbd's dedication to advancing pet health and ensuring access to safe, effective treatments. Stay informed, stay engaged and together with vet CBD, let's continue to advocate for the best possible care for our beloved pets.

00;48;06;13 - 00;48;08;29
Maria
...

00;48;09;02 - 00;48;32;10
Maria
We just thank you so much. And it's it's just for anyone interested in becoming involved and supporting this efforts, please go to Grebe life.com. We have plenty of advocacy materials, and we'll keep you up to date on what's happening in the world with veterinarian and how you could be involved in your state. I say it again and again.

00;48;32;10 - 00;48;43;09
Maria
It's so important to know the issues, know how they impact you so that you're voting based on your value system, not against what will work for you.

00;48;43;11 - 00;48;47;15
Tim Shu
We appreciate your support and glad you're finding comfort for yourself as well.

00;48;47;17 - 00;49;23;04
Maria
But we have it backwards. We're using end of life drugs, morphine out of in, narco opioids to deal with chronic conditions that sometimes their onset is in people. Like when it happened, for me, it was in my early 20s. It's not sustainable. So it's it's it's just backwards cannabis to deal with chronic conditions, especially when they're onset is at an earlier age is a godsend for many people.

00;49;23;06 - 00;49;44;26
Maria
But understanding that this is it is a medicine plant and it's individualized medicine. We've we've touched on so many great topics today. Tim. Is there anything else, though, that you'd like to add that we didn't discuss? I'm sure this is just the beginning. We could easily do a whole series of interviews with you, and I know you'll be back.

00;49;45;04 - 00;50;09;03
Tim Shu
Yeah, I think we we covered a lot. And if anyone has any further questions, you know, like I said, we have veterinary nurses on staff, so you can always email us, info@vetcbd.com. You can always call us (562) 754-3713. I am more than happy to talk to, you know, pet owners, sometimes we talk to their veterinarians because their veterinarians want a little bit more clarification.

00;50;09;06 - 00;50;28;01
Tim Shu
On, cannabis and CBD and hemp. The other thing that I also offer is I have a 1.5 hour continuing education webinar for veterinarians and registered veterinary technicians so that that where they can learn about cannabis, the clinical applications of cannabis, and they can actually get continue education credit for it as well.

00;50;28;04 - 00;50;31;07
Maria
Are you finding veterinarians open to it, embracing it.

00;50;31;07 - 00;50;41;25
Tim Shu
Yeah. Because, you know, it's really interesting. They're they're seeing their clients come in and talk to them about how cannabis and about how CBD has been beneficial for their pets.

00;50;41;27 - 00;50;43;20
Maria
Seeing is believing, right?

00;50;43;20 - 00;50;49;13
Tim Shu
So so when they see that for themselves, you know, then they become really curious and want to learn more about it.

00;50;49;18 - 00;51;21;19
Maria
That's exactly right. That's what happened for me and I've not encountered is many medical doctors who are as open or willing to discuss cannabis as veterinarians are. It's interesting, especially considering that we're in a state where it began legally, medicinally, all the way back in 1996. But there's still a fear, a divide. It's still federally prohibited. But it's encouraging because pets can serve as a gateway for their owners, their veterinarians.

00;51;21;22 - 00;51;39;04
Maria
To learn more about cannabis. For me, my journey with cannabis began with my dog. It changed my life. I started an entire platform, Green Bee life.com, to connect experts with listeners with innovative brands.

00;51;39;04 - 00;52;01;11
Tim Shu
Yeah, and we've seen that. We've seen actually some, pet owners initially utilize cannabis for their pets. And they said, you know what I mean? I have some of these same symptoms too, or my family members have some of these same symptoms, too. And, you know, we see that cannabis can be very beneficial. And it's not, you know, just, you know, snake oil or, you know, we're not just making this up.

00;52;01;13 - 00;52;08;29
Tim Shu
And, you know, so they see the proof is in the pudding, and they see how well it works for the pets, and then they start using it for themselves to improve their own lives.

00;52;09;02 - 00;52;22;05
Maria
Thank you so much for joining us today, Doctor Shu. We appreciate your sharing your insights and look forward to changing the way the world sees green one conversation at a time. We're looking forward to having you back.

00;52;22;12 - 00;52;25;15
Tim Shu
Thanks for having me, Maria. I appreciate it.

00;52;25;17 - 00;52;51;25
Maria
Thank you for tuning in to this week's episode of Just Say KNOW. That's KNOW with a K with me, your host, Maria Calabrese I really hope you found my conversation with veterinarians. Doctor Tim's Shu about pets and cannabis enlightening and empowering. Remember, knowledge is key when it comes to the health and well-being of our furry friends. If you have any question or topics you'd like us to cover in future episodes, feel free to reach out to me personally.

00;52;52;01 - 00;53;08;02
Maria
Until next time, take care and give your pets and yourselves some extra love.

00;53;10;06 - 00;53;43;03
Maria
Just say know is a greenbeelife presentation airing live weekly on Friday afternoons from 4 to 5 p.m. Pacific on KCAA radio and KCAA TV. Archived audio episodes are on greenbeelife, greenbeelife.com, iHeart Radio, Spreaker and most third party major platforms. For archived videos, check them out on GBL TV on greenbeelife, YouTube and Rumble.

00;53;43;06 - 00;54;29;02
Maria
To follow us! Our Instagram and Facebook is at Just Say Know Radio to apply to be a guest on the show or for sponsorship and advertising opportunities, go to greenbeelife.com/just-say-know and feel free to reach out to me Maria for any questions at Maria@greenbeelife.com or (818) 758-6925.

00;54;29;04 - 00;55;02;24
Quick Hits
Looking for some easy to access knowledge bombs about cannabis. Quick hits offer bite sized yet potent insight into how cannabis can improve our daily lives and explores different aspects of this multifaceted plant. Join us and our favorite thought leaders, activists, educators, lawyers, regulators, cultivators, entrepreneurs and many more as we discover the benefits and crush the stigma of this miracle plant.

00;55;02;26 - 00;55;10;22
Quick Hits
Together.

00;55;10;24 - 00;55;35;29
Maria
Hey there, my fellow animal lovers and cannabis enthusiast. Today I'm going to share some basic guidelines on how to determine the proper amount of CBD to add when making homemade dog treats for your fur baby. To get started, you want to make sure you have a good quality CBD tincture. For today's recipe, I chose to use that CBD hemp tincture because it's ethically sourced from USA grown hemp.

00;55;35;29 - 00;56;10;28
Maria
It's veterinarian formulated. It's earned an NRC quality seal, which means they're operating with some pretty high standards. It comes unflavored and it's available in three strands. I've had great results giving it to my senior German Shepherd, Roxy, for terrible skin allergies, anxiety, and pain management in general. I'd say I'm a savvy consumer, but I morph into a due diligence queen when it comes to sourcing products for my pets and our hive.

00;56;11;01 - 00;56;45;16
Maria
All right, now that we have our hemp oil, we're gonna need a benchmark, a general guideline for a starting dose. I found conflicting information online and pretty much everywhere when it came to recommended amounts as high as one milligram and even higher per pound of your pet's body weight. It was very confusing and concerning. So I was finally able to find a reasonable consensus and tapped into my veterinarian resource list.

00;56;45;17 - 00;57;15;18
Maria
Verify the conserve is 2 to 2.5 milligrams of CBD per 10 pounds of your pet's body weight. Titrating up as needed and tolerated. Now, it's important to always consult with your veterinarian for personalized dosing or titrating up advice based on your pet's weight, size, breed, and individual health needs. One thing to keep in mind with store bought cookies is small.

00;57;15;18 - 00;57;44;21
Maria
Start at a five milligram per treat serving, which can be limiting. If you have a smaller dog, then all they get is a little nibble. Today's recipes shape and size will yield about 50 servings. I'm going to use 125mg in order to get a 2.5mg serving per treat. Know, then go.

00;57;44;23 - 00;58;17;23
Maria
Just say know is a greenbeelife presentation airing live weekly on Friday afternoons from 4 to 5 p.m. Pacific on KCAA radio and KCAA TV. Archived audio episodes are on greenbeelife, greenbeelife.com, iHeart Radio, Spreaker and most third party major platforms. For archived videos, check them out on GBL TV on greenbeelife, YouTube and Rumble.

00;58;17;25 - 00;58;52;12
Maria
To follow us! Our Instagram and Facebook is at Just Say Know Radio to apply to be a guest on the show or for sponsorship and advertising opportunities, go to greenbeelife.com/just-say-know and feel free to reach out to me Maria for any questions at Maria@greenbeelife.com or (818) 758-6925.