EPISODE 3

In episode 3 of Just Say KNOW, Maria Calabrese sits down with Dr. Manesh Girn to explore the science behind psychedelics and cannabis as emerging tools in mental health care. They discuss neuroplasticity, the therapeutic potential of psilocybin, and the distinct effects of cannabis compounds like THC, CBD, and CBG. Dr. Girn also shares insights from his groundbreaking research at UCSF and opens up about the personal psilocybin experience that sparked his passion for neuroscience. This episode is perfect for anyone curious about natural medicines and how, when used responsibly-whether recreationally or medically- they may support healing and emotional well-being.

November 15, 2024

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Maria
Hello again and welcome to Just Say KNOW. I'm your host, Maria Calabrese and you're listening to KCAA Radio 1050 AM, 106.5 FM, It's time to grow our know with some of the smartest minds in the industry.

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Intro Music
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Intro Music
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Maria
We're taking on a topic that's got a lot of people talking. And maybe even a bit nervous. Cannabis and psychedelics. Imagine if something as simple as an herb or a mushroom curry shape our understanding of mental health. Well, if you're feeling unsure, you're not alone. And today's guest is here to clear up some of the myths and bring us closer to the science behind these powerful substances that are not only for the adventurous, but hold a real, true promise for improving brain health and enhancing general well-being.

00;02;08;06 - 00;02;49;15
Maria
I'm thrilled to introduce Doctor Manesh Girn Manesh is a neuroscientist who's earned his PhD from McGill University. Doctor Manesh, his research focuses on understanding the effects of cannabis, but even in more depth, psychedelics like psilocybin on the brain and how they can support our mental health. Manesh brings a wealth of knowledge from his groundbreaking work at UCSF in Robin Cart Hart Harris's lab, leading the exploration on how psychedelics impact brain connectivity and neuroplasticity.

00;02;49;17 - 00;03;21;11
Maria
His expertise bridges psychology, philosophy and neuroscience, which enables him to offer a really broad view on how these natural substances might help us understand our minds in new ways, and we can apply this knowledge to our daily lives to improve them. And if you'd like to learn more at home, Doctor Girn also shares his research as the psychedelic scientist on YouTube, where he breaks down the latest findings in an easy to digest way.

00;03;21;14 - 00;03;51;16
Maria
Whether you're a big, curious or cautiously skeptical, we've got an incredible guest and an exciting discussion lined up. So sit back, relax, and let's get smarter together and Just Say KNOW. Welcome, doctor Girn Thank you so much for joining us today. I'd like to briefly introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about Robin Carhart, Harris's lab, and your role in the research being done.

00;03;51;18 - 00;04;09;29
Manesh Girn
Yeah. Thank you so much for the introduction, Maria. And I'm really excited to chat with you today. It's really awesome. Like really important and popular topics. And people are increasingly being asked about psychedelics and cannabis and the stigma is starting to be reduced. But there's still a lot of work to do, a lot of stuff to clear up.

00;04;10;02 - 00;04;34;18
Manesh Girn
Yeah. So as you mentioned, I work at UCSF currently as a neuroscientist, and what we primarily do is brain imaging research on psychedelics such as. So Simon, whereas. So Simon is the molecule in so-called magic mushrooms that has profound effects. And so what we study is how that works on the brain and how that might relate to changes in things like wellbeing and psychological functioning.

00;04;34;19 - 00;04;54;00
Manesh Girn
So what many people might not know is that psilocybin, is used very commonly to treat depression in research studies with a lot of promise. And, it's also in a variety of ways we'll get into actually good for your brain and healthy in certain ways, and helping it grow and regenerate and be more flexible over time.

00;04;54;02 - 00;05;08;22
Maria
Just let's really start at psychedelics 101 cannabis magic mushrooms. Let's start magic mushrooms. So how would a magic mushroom, for instance, as a fungi differ from one I put in my salad?

00;05;08;29 - 00;05;37;18
Manesh Girn
Yeah. So the fungi kingdom is a massive one, and there's a huge variety of different types of fungi. And in particular, there's around 200 types of fungi that contain psilocybin. And so there's a huge variety. And so the main difference is that they contain this little molecule and a couple of other molecules. I'll do that, that you might have walked past some psilocybin containing mushrooms on a hike or in a forest, as they do grow in a variety of places naturally across the world.

00;05;37;21 - 00;05;48;06
Manesh Girn
And they're actually quite common. And just by the naked eye, it would be indistinguishable from any other mushroom growing. And this happens to be the case that if you consume these, they have profound effect on your experience.

00;05;48;11 - 00;05;52;22
Maria
And psilocybin is just one of many compounds. Correct?

00;05;52;25 - 00;05;58;28
Manesh Girn
Yeah. So there's several. But psilocybin is the main one that elicits the psychedelic effects, as we'd say.

00;05;59;01 - 00;06;32;04
Maria
And I think that's very interesting and parallel when it comes to cannabis, because many people think, and it's nobody's fault, it's because of the prohibition. There's been a huge amount of misinformation or no information. So what most people heard of was CBD or THC, and most people think it's just THC and high. Now CBD is having its day, but there's over 150 compounds in cannabis too.

00;06;32;05 - 00;06;53;02
Maria
So and all of these have the potential for medicinal benefit. So your research is, so critical to cannabis, not a mushroom. Cannabis, I'm told, is a vegetable and an herb. Can you verify that and tell us a little bit about cannabis compared to fungi?

00;06;53;09 - 00;07;15;07
Manesh Girn
Certainly. I mean, we can call cannabis a plant, a herb. And it's it's a different class than fungi. Obviously it's not a mushroom, but similar. And that's a naturally occurring, organism that, you know, and it's also similar to magic mushrooms, actually, in the fact that it's been used for hundreds, if not thousands of years in different cultures across the world.

00;07;15;09 - 00;07;42;17
Manesh Girn
And it's quite interesting that we are very idiosyncratic in the modern world as defining these compounds as drugs to be outlawed. Because cannabis, as well as magic mushrooms, have been revered as almost as sacraments, as inducing these spiritual and healing experiences that should be used in a ritual kind of way. And so, you know, they've been kind of revered as use parts of the natural world as a gift to us that we can use for our own benefit.

00;07;42;19 - 00;07;48;10
Manesh Girn
And so it's really interesting. We have this view of them as these dangerous drugs in the modern context.

00;07;48;12 - 00;07;53;27
Maria
Doctor, and what exactly is neuroplasticity city.

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Manesh Girn
It's a fascinating topic that's actually becoming more and more of interest in the mental health fields as well as neuroscience. So neuroplasticity refers to the brain's ability to change itself, to rewire connections, and to change itself in response to experience in response to injuries. It allows us to learn. It's involved in a variety of processes. And the old dogma, you know, maybe 20 years ago was that once for an adult, our brains don't change.

00;08;24;08 - 00;08;32;03
Manesh Girn
They're not plastic anymore. We're set in our ways. That's just how we are. And now we know from decades of research that it's not true.

00;08;32;06 - 00;08;41;25
Maria
So if my husband if if my husband tells me, stop trying to teach an old dog new tricks. Mom don't want to get off on that.

00;08;41;27 - 00;09;01;15
Manesh Girn
Yeah, but not a lot of people get away with that. I think that's just an excuse that people like to use. But I think the research has told us time and time again that the brain has this remarkable ability to change. And, and that might be less when we're older, but it's not zero. It's still there. And if you believe it's there, you can recreate the change.

00;09;01;22 - 00;09;05;02
Manesh Girn
If you believe it's impossible, you're going to create that for yourself.

00;09;05;04 - 00;09;17;01
Maria
Wow, wow. And it might be a little bit more challenging when you're older, but is that where these substances can help facilitate it?

00;09;17;03 - 00;09;46;02
Manesh Girn
Yes, exactly. I think particularly magic mushrooms have been highlighted for being potent neuroplasticity enhancers. And that's one of the reasons why they're finding in these studies with depression that people will take, psilocybin mushrooms for just pure psilocybin in the therapeutic setting of the therapist 1 to 3 times, let's say over a month or so. And six months later, a month later, they're cured of a depression that they had for 20 plus years, which is insane.

00;09;46;04 - 00;09;54;22
Manesh Girn
But it's only possible because of these neuroplasticity changes in the brain, which are relatively, precedented in the context of psychiatry.

00;09;54;24 - 00;10;21;27
Maria
Now, I know people who have suffered and chronic depression. And going back you talked 20 years, but going back even further, I know people have been on psychopharmacology, medicines before. The SSRI is right. There was a problem with Valium and then that became addictive. And then there was, I think Ellisville. Those were dating back. And then the SSRI came out.

00;10;21;29 - 00;10;40;02
Maria
But people are on those forever. And can you talk a little bit about the side effects associated with it? I mean, a lot of people who need to be on medication shy away from it because it right, because of the side effects and then there's left to suffer. Could you speak a little bit to that?

00;10;40;04 - 00;11;06;15
Manesh Girn
Certainly. I mean, there's definitely a place for these standard pharmaceuticals. Standard antidepressants helped many people cope and live lives that they wouldn't be able to live otherwise. But as you said, they come with side effects that come with the trade off. And so, one of the most commonly prescribed class of drugs or SSRIs, it's a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, things like Lexapro or Prozac.

00;11;06;18 - 00;11;27;04
Manesh Girn
People may have heard of either of those two, call me prescribed drugs. And these those are both antidepressants. And they basically change your brain chemistry to help you feel a bit better. But it comes at the cost of, lessening your capacity for positive emotions as well. They kind of draw you emotionally. They can lead to weight gain.

00;11;27;06 - 00;11;47;04
Manesh Girn
They, kill people's sex drive, and can lead to fatigue and all sorts of things. And so the trade off is you're less depressed, but you're less anything else. Right? It's a doling out and you're you expected to take it every single day indefinitely. Otherwise you're going to get worse again.

00;11;47;06 - 00;12;21;05
Maria
Can you tell us what a drink does to your brain? It's not calming your nerves, right? It's killing. It's it's dulling. It's it's killing the brain cells. It's I don't I'm making the analogy to the antidepressants where it's a darling effect. And when I talk to people who do suicide in or consume cannabis, they say it actually relieves the anxiety and the depression to help them engage, not become the stoner stereotypical couch lock.

00;12;21;07 - 00;12;26;26
Maria
Could you speak a little bit? Is there truth to that other studies? Is that your experience?

00;12;26;29 - 00;12;52;04
Manesh Girn
I think that's a really good point to make. The thing, the important distinguishing characteristic of alcohol versus cannabis and magic mushrooms is that alcohol is toxic for your brain. Cannabis is not, magic mushrooms are not. So alcohol is very literally neurotoxic in a way that these other substances are not. And it's interesting that alcohol is culturally sanctioned while these are demonized, but that that's a whole other topic.

00;12;52;04 - 00;13;16;22
Manesh Girn
But what you're alluding to was, how alcohol will dull and suppress our emotions. Then as opposed to giving us an opportunity to actually face them and work through them and how how alcohol works in the brain is it, primarily activates particular brain receptors, which are the brain receptors that, reduce the activity of our brain cells.

00;13;16;25 - 00;13;37;04
Manesh Girn
And so literally, when you take, you drink a lot of alcohol, it's suppressing the activity of different brain cells. And this is also why people feel a bit more loose and disinhibited, usual, kind of self-consciousness and our ability to regulate our, ourselves and our impulses is reduced because literally those brain cells are being turned down.

00;13;37;06 - 00;14;00;04
Manesh Girn
And same with other areas related to emotion. So like sadness or fear, those are all sort of tamped down, which perhaps can be useful to socialize and talk to that attractive person you're nervous to talk to. But over time, it's really not making real growth and progress as an individual. You're using it as this kind of, crutch or, way to avoid your feelings.

00;14;00;07 - 00;14;46;25
Maria
And then that's where the addictive effect comes and you need it and you rely on it, whereas you're not having the corrective emotional experience. The difference if you're consuming, certain cannabinoids and terpenes or magic mushrooms, your brain is actually changing. And then you experience that. How would that go if if I were to enter into therapy and I had some type of post-traumatic stress, and I had a phase of fear that I've just been dampening down, go away with alcohol and pharma, pharmacological drugs, how would that what would that therapy look like?

00;14;46;27 - 00;15;10;28
Manesh Girn
Yeah, it's, it's really important to emphasize that when we're talking about magic mushrooms and psychedelics in the context of mental health, it's in a very structured way. It's not the same as just taking it with your friends and going to a party or a festival or or what have you. It's a very structured process. Where, how it begins is you'll, you know, meet your therapist that's guiding you through it.

00;15;11;00 - 00;15;41;08
Manesh Girn
And they're trained professional who knows specifically about psychedelic experiences and had a guide people through them. And, if you pass the screening, we usually screen people out with a family or personal history of schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, for example. There's just a bit more risk there. So we screen those people out, we bring them in, we, we ask them to share about their lives, what they're going through, what they're looking to get out of the experience and tell them how to best navigate the experience in a safe way.

00;15;41;10 - 00;16;14;16
Manesh Girn
And then the actual drug session is done in a very controlled way, where you're in this comfortable room, you're asked to wear I shades and listen to the music on the playlist, and you literally just go internal into your experience and explore what comes up. And naturally, memories will come up that you've long forgotten. You might start sobbing a little bit from emotions from years ago that you forgot that you didn't process, and you're guided to this very vulnerable and real experience of, you know, reliving memories, processing emotions, having new perspectives on your life.

00;16;14;19 - 00;16;29;27
Manesh Girn
And then after that powerful experience you're supported in. Okay, how do we make sense of this? How can we ground that into your life and the changes you want to make? And so that's the process that magic mushrooms are usually given in to treat depression or anxiety or these other conditions.

00;16;29;29 - 00;16;36;23
Maria
And what actually happens to your brain vis-a-vis the neuroplasticity. What it's actually happening.

00;16;36;26 - 00;16;59;24
Manesh Girn
Yeah. So it's really interesting. So doing like experiential psychologically you're going through all these insights and reliving and so on and processing emotions. But at the same time as that's happening, our brain is becoming more plastic. So literally it's allowing your brain cells to grow new connections that then you can encode what you're experience in the past and what you're experiencing in a lasting way.

00;16;59;26 - 00;17;04;04
Maria
Wow. These are neural pathways.

00;17;04;07 - 00;17;10;13
Manesh Girn
And you're doing so physically growing. They're physically grow extensions temporarily. But then you can make them last.

00;17;10;16 - 00;17;21;17
Maria
The belief used to be right. The brain cannot change or heal. When when did in research time was this this discovery made.

00;17;21;19 - 00;17;41;01
Manesh Girn
Yeah I think broadly over the past 20 years it's slowly been, growing in recognition that it's possible. But I think with psychedelics in the last ten years, it's shown like, wow, we can really boost this in a reliable way, in a way that's potent and that lasts and that can be used for therapy that's relatively recent in the past decade, that's really taken off.

00;17;41;04 - 00;18;11;17
Maria
The realization that the brain has a remarkable ability to actually adapt. You got to get past that trauma. So you have to be able to tolerate it, adapt and then heal. I mean, wow, and isn't it a little paradoxical? Like the brain doesn't necessarily it's not necessarily wired over time to to adapt. It's more it likes structure.

00;18;11;17 - 00;18;24;17
Maria
It likes it likes certainty. Not so much uncertainty. So that's how our pathways become semantic or habitual patterns happen.

00;18;24;19 - 00;18;42;13
Manesh Girn
Yes. I love that you brought this up because the brain really is entrenched in the business of trying to make our lives as automated and as easy as possible, right? So it's gets stuck in these patterns which it thinks, oh, it makes living easier because it makes you certain I'm going to entered into this environment. I'm going to be needed.

00;18;42;13 - 00;19;07;17
Manesh Girn
You needed to act in this way and this is what works. This is how I am. That's how the world is. But what's interesting is there's there's a lot more research emerging. These days suggesting that the more rigid we are in our ways, the worse our mental health, the worse of resilience, right. The voice of adaptability. And so I think the the, the cornerstone of mental health and emotional resilience is flexibility.

00;19;07;17 - 00;19;20;06
Manesh Girn
Flexibility in our thoughts, in who we think we are and what we believe about the world, and always being open to changing and growing. And that's one of the biggest markers of mental health and flourishing overall.

00;19;20;08 - 00;19;41;23
Maria
How do we have innovation? How do we get past traumas? How do we even just have conversations? If we're on to two different sides of a of, I mean, to be able to have a conversation with you? There's many people I know who will not even listen to me. They're going to Just Say KNOW. And, oh, Maria cannot be psychedelic.

00;19;41;23 - 00;20;11;17
Maria
What are you, crazy LSD people jumping out of? Well, okay, well, maybe you could use some little flexibility and expand your brain. There's a time and place for structure, but. But is that why they'll say for older people, it's very important to to get comfortable with the uncomfortable, learn a new language, pick up an instrument. Is is that where that that that comes in for older people?

00;20;11;19 - 00;20;46;09
Manesh Girn
Certainly in those things you just mentioned help boost neuroplasticity. So do keep your brain plastic and nimble. You know, some of the most important things you can do are seek out new experiences, learn new skills, learn a language, learn an instrument. It's never too late. Also, one of the biggest boosters in neuroplasticity is endurance exercise. Whether that's swimming, cycling, jogging, even brisk walks, doing that for half an hour and let's say of 3 to 4 times a week is really it'll make wonders for people's brain health and mental health.

00;20;46;11 - 00;21;18;14
Maria
In terms of cannabis. Can you tell us a little bit of heard like the mother of all cannabinoids now is being coined CBG. And I know that there see the prohibition limits research. But it's exciting with more acceptance and with more legalization you could speak to whether the barriers of research are coming down. And if you could tell me a little bit about, the research on CBG or how certain cannabinoids affect the brain.

00;21;18;16 - 00;21;30;28
Manesh Girn
Certainly. And so cannabis, as you were saying earlier, has a whole variety of different compounds within it. It's not just THC, which is what we usually associated with, because that's what gives the typical high we associate with cannabis.

00;21;31;03 - 00;21;42;20
Maria
And that tend to not interrupt you. Maybe you could just explain the difference as well. THC before it is heated up. It's actually in its raw form THC is that correct?

00;21;42;23 - 00;21;47;09
Manesh Girn
Right? It is correct. Yeah. TCA when hot, when warmed up. When heated, it turns into THC.

00;21;47;09 - 00;21;56;02
Maria
Yes. Which has so even only THC has the, the psychotropic effect.

00;21;56;05 - 00;22;18;12
Manesh Girn
Yeah certainly. And the, the three cannabinoids as are called cannabinoids are just cannabis molecules, molecules that occur in the cannabis plant. The most popular ones that are studied and looked at for their benefits and effects of THC, which you just mentioned, CBD and then CBG, which you also briefly mentioned. And so I just walk through each of these really briefly.

00;22;18;12 - 00;22;42;20
Manesh Girn
So THC is the compound, you know, that makes people high. It makes people stoned. That's what people associate with cannabis. And this has the typical effects. And in addition to that, it can also it's often obviously in many people no less used to relieve anxiety in lower doses particularly, it can really calm people's anxiety and also help with things like chronic pain.

00;22;42;22 - 00;23;09;02
Manesh Girn
And that's THC. But then also CBD is also potently reduces anxiety and has been found in studies to do that. So it's I've also found that it could be antidepressant. And not only that it's also anti-inflammatory. So people even with arthritis and different inflammatory conditions expressing relief from CBD, not to mention also its effects for reducing epileptic seizures.

00;23;09;02 - 00;23;31;03
Manesh Girn
So reducing seizures for people with epilepsy and it's actually FDA approved for that. It is a compound CBD based drug that does that. So CBD has no psychological effects acutely like your it doesn't make you high, but behind the scenes of our biology through our endocannabinoid system, which I could talk about, is actually has all these different health benefits.

00;23;31;05 - 00;24;00;04
Manesh Girn
And then the last one is CBD, which is a kind of simpler molecule than CBD or THC. And actually, you know, can be considered a precursor of them. It's, can turn into them with different steps. And that's also very much involved in reducing inflammation. It modulates our immune system and it also relieves, oxidative stress, meaning it's an antioxidant, which again, it means it clears up cellular damage.

00;24;00;04 - 00;24;03;18
Manesh Girn
It's healthy for our cells as well throughout our bodies.

00;24;03;20 - 00;24;11;00
Maria
Now cannabis has a rougher road. I, I think you can answer this in terms of research.

00;24;11;01 - 00;24;16;05
Manesh Girn
Yeah, certainly. Yeah. There's a lot more research on magic mushrooms than cannabis these days.

00;24;16;08 - 00;24;24;15
Maria
There are actual peer reviewed studies, for cannabis. And those indications would is that correct?

00;24;24;18 - 00;24;32;17
Manesh Girn
Yeah, certainly. These are the most rigorous randomized controlled trials done at esteemed institutions with cannabis and for psychedelics for that matter.

00;24;32;19 - 00;25;07;23
Maria
Great. And on our show page will list, references for our listeners. Yes. For anti seizures. Epidiolex CBD is used in Epidiolex pharmaceutical drug, which that'll be a whole other episode is caused quite confusion because once the FDA approved it as an ingredient in a prescription drug, they didn't speak to it as an ingredient in food or in supplements, which is holding things up when it comes to food and supplements.

00;25;07;23 - 00;25;28;02
Maria
Do you believe even though CBD is an ingredient in a pharmaceutical drugs such as Epidiolex for seizures, do you believe there is an OTC and over-the-counter use for? I mean, yes, right. It should be available in tinctures, gummies, topicals.

00;25;28;05 - 00;25;48;11
Manesh Girn
100%. I think they're trying to monopolize by making it into a psychiatric drug that they can profit off of in patent and an IP place. You know, it's really just a psychiatry pharmaceutical play. That's what that is. I think CBD should be widely available in a variety of different forms. It's non-psychoactive it's not addictive. It's not harmful.

00;25;48;13 - 00;26;01;20
Manesh Girn
Right. For the, you know, brain or body, if anything is really beneficial for it when used in the right, in reasonable doses. And so there's no reason why it should be outlawed the way it should be. This doesn't make any scientific sense.

00;26;01;22 - 00;26;33;20
Maria
For us and any I mean, we go all the way back to the 1937 Marijuana Tax Act before they probably even knew there was an endocannabinoid system. And back when Eli Lilly was actually growing marijuana. And before we turned to Poppy. But that's a whole other episode on we'll get on talk about opioids. But, and even the US government held the patent on CBD, for the around right just recently expired.

00;26;33;20 - 00;27;06;18
Maria
And the indication was as a neuro protectant. So there is a lot of misinformation out there, and there's a lot of conversation for us to spark. But, you know, I so many people justifiably are concerned about potential risks. You know, of cannabis and on psychedelics and they talk about, maybe you could just speak to are they addictive?

00;27;06;21 - 00;27;28;06
Manesh Girn
Right. So we could start there. Yeah. Or we could start with magic mushrooms really quick. The answer is no. There's no evidence that they create, a physical dependance or a psychological dependance in 99% of cases. And just the nature of the way the drug works is, you can't really take it twice in a week in a high dose because you could get tolerance really fast.

00;27;28;09 - 00;27;48;23
Manesh Girn
And also the effects are so intense and somewhat unpredictable. You don't know if you're going to have this, you know, blissful, euphoric experience of laughing versus, processing sadness you didn't process when you're seven years old, right? You don't know which direction is going to go in necessarily. And so it's hard to get addicted to that because you're not chasing a high.

00;27;48;23 - 00;28;15;14
Manesh Girn
It doesn't give you a high. It gives you a profoundly variable experience. So that's why magic mushrooms are really unique. For cannabis, there's some potential for it to be habit forming and addictive, but much less than nicotine, less than alcohol. And so which is to say, like we normalize alcohol, nicotine a lot and we demonize cannabis when it's less toxic, less harmful and less addictive.

00;28;15;16 - 00;28;34;09
Manesh Girn
But I would say like there is some potential for addictiveness with cannabis, as people often will use it to self-medicate anxiety and pain and anything that you're using to self-medicate some kind of suffering can be addictive. Whether that's food, it could be an exercise, it could be reading, it could be learning, it could be anything, could be addictive.

00;28;34;12 - 00;29;06;16
Maria
Workaholic. Tik Tok, social media. I get couch locked by Netflix. I'm not worried about cannabis. One one thing that. But you're right, because it's anything that's treating. I'm a chronic back pain sufferer. Having had forms, massive spinal surgeries and anything that you think you anything that treats just this, the, they're just they're not getting to the root.

00;29;06;16 - 00;29;37;06
Maria
It's just treating the symptom. It's going to become addictive. Whether it's physically addictive or actually addictive in your brain, it's going to become addictive because you're you're taking care of the symptom. And when the pain comes back, that's that's unpleasant. So you want more and you want more and you want more, but you know, it's the ability to change the actual physiology of your brain and work through a trauma, adapt and heal and learn.

00;29;37;08 - 00;29;50;06
Maria
Learn to become adaptable. That's I mean, wow, I mean, the impact on the world cannabis is smoked. Is is smoking for mushrooms a form of consumption or not? Typically.

00;29;50;08 - 00;30;09;29
Manesh Girn
No. So mushrooms usually you would just eat them or people will, make a tea out of them that's also quite popular. Or it's bake them into chocolate or good baked goods. So but you, you consume it orally, as we say, like through your mouth or your, you know, digestive system. And obviously cannabis can be consumed that way as well.

00;30;09;29 - 00;30;30;12
Manesh Girn
And I think, you know, for cannabis, yes. Like smoking and combusting plant material can be, you know, can irritate your lungs, of course. And so but there's a whole variety of ways outside of that, whether it's, vaporizing it, which is probably the better way to consume the herb, as well as edibles or tinctures or lozenges that go under your tongue.

00;30;30;14 - 00;30;34;04
Manesh Girn
There's a variety of ways of consuming cannabis without smoking it.

00;30;34;06 - 00;30;49;03
Maria
Is there emerging research on combining, psilocybin and cannabis or psychedelic mushrooms and cannabis? Do they have opposite effects, or can they be complementary?

00;30;49;05 - 00;31;07;08
Manesh Girn
Right. It's an interesting question. And, you know, the scientist in me has to say we don't know yet during those studies that haven't been conducted, obviously, a lot of people out in the world do combine them in different ways, and it's not like taking a stimulant and smoking cannabis with there are it's kind of conflicting a little bit.

00;31;07;10 - 00;31;31;27
Manesh Girn
I think, cannabis can potentially complement psychedelics if used in the right way, at the right point in the experience to help ground people, get them back into their body, relieve any anxiety and so on. But at the same time, smoking too much, especially high THC strains while under a psychedelic could potentially lead to more anxiety, and potentially even paranoia.

00;31;31;29 - 00;31;58;12
Manesh Girn
And so there are risks, and it's kind of a sensitive thing to combine these two or really to combine any drugs that are psychoactive is always a bit of a risk and, something to be handled sensitively. But I think if we zoom forward ten years from now or 20 years and where this has been studied, I think there will be a use case for help for cannabis helping regulate people's anxiety, and help them move through potentially difficult emotions during a psychedelic experience.

00;31;58;15 - 00;32;14;02
Maria
I hope we can have that emerging research. What are the most promising findings, in the work and research you're doing in the lab? And can you tell us a little bit about the lab and about Robin, for sure.

00;32;14;02 - 00;32;38;21
Manesh Girn
So, as you've mentioned, I work at UCSF, University of California, San Francisco, and my supervisor is Doctor Robin Carhart Harris. And he is a major pioneer in the space, published over, like hundreds of papers. And, he did the first ever modern study using psilocybin mushrooms for depression and also the first ever brain imaging studies of psilocybin and LSD and DMT, two other psychedelics.

00;32;38;23 - 00;33;07;25
Manesh Girn
And so he's a world recognized leader in the space. And I actually moved to San Francisco to work with him directly. I've known him for years, and we're doing a variety of studies at the cutting edge of how psilocybin affects the brain, and in particular, one of our studies. Now we're looking at, we're trying to see how different people, different people's brains respond in different ways and, and how that we might use that to predict whether they're going to get better or what the long term effects for them is going to be.

00;33;07;28 - 00;33;28;23
Manesh Girn
For example, we want to say, by measuring your brain now and seeing how it relaxes reacts to slow cycling during the experience, we know we can. We know whether we're in six months or a year from now, you're going to be doing better or the same, or potentially even worse. And, we're trying to create these models to do that based on the brain.

00;33;28;25 - 00;33;50;21
Maria
Very, very, very exciting. And if someone wanted to explore the possibility of working with a neuroscientist or a psychiatrist, are there many trained in this type of using, magic mushrooms in their in their psychiatric practices? In the United States?

00;33;50;23 - 00;34;19;03
Manesh Girn
Yeah, it's a good question. I think, to to start there, I think it's important to recognize the legal status of mushrooms, right. Because they are federally illegal. They're schedule one. However, there are places where, there are a number of a growing number of cities where it's decriminalized. And so, yeah, so you can access it, you could, be gifted it and possess it and use it without being criminalized, without being and without it being illegal.

00;34;19;06 - 00;34;43;04
Manesh Girn
And so that is possible. And there are certain states leading the charge, actually. So Oregon has state approved psilocybin service centers where you can do legal psilocybin therapy. You could literally drive into Oregon flying there or whatever and do legal psilocybin therapy. Today people are doing it. And Colorado is also, the proof approved in approved a bill for it as well.

00;34;43;11 - 00;35;03;00
Manesh Girn
And so they're in the middle of that. And I've actually interface with a lot of, practitioners and organizations doing trainings for practitioners. And I've supported that, in Colorado to help bring that in. So, there are places in the States to do that and also places like Jamaica, for example. So seven mushrooms were never legal in Jamaica.

00;35;03;00 - 00;35;29;07
Manesh Girn
And they're there's, there's tons of retreat centers. People fly out to do psilocybin in Jamaica as well. For example. So so that's your first question, whether there are people trained in this. There are thousands and thousands of people training in the States. You know, a lot of them do it. And, you know, underground, and some of them do it in these legal, sanctioned places where it's either decriminalized or legal in the States.

00;35;29;10 - 00;35;55;09
Maria
Yeah, I don't know. I think our brains as a society have to be expanded because in mental health, if you look at the history, we, you know, we're drilling holes in people's heads and trying to do a lobotomy. And that was okay. Legal. Are they still they're still doing electroshock therapy in the United States, is that correct?

00;35;55;11 - 00;36;21;29
Manesh Girn
Yeah. They do. It is the last resort. Yeah. It's funny, it's funny. There was, as a side story in Canada, so I'm Canadian, I'm originally from Canada. And so in Canada, we have a way through the government to give compassionate access, to system therapy. Actually, but in order to qualify for it, you need to have a depression that didn't respond to at least 2 or 3 antidepressant medications.

00;36;22;02 - 00;36;42;19
Manesh Girn
And in most cases, they ask you to try electroconvulsive therapy first, which is absurd. It's like to be able to be, suitable to try this natural occurring mushroom in a therapeutic setting. You have to be shocked first, and that has to not work in order to get there. It's it's absurd. It's quite ridiculous.

00;36;42;21 - 00;36;58;02
Maria
What? And, and I don't look. Some people only have certain therapies available to them or maybe even benefit. But what does electroshock therapy due to the brain. Can you just explain that?

00;36;58;04 - 00;37;22;16
Manesh Girn
You know what is really interesting, actually, it's through stressing the brain and overstimulating it. It actually boosts neuroplasticity. It's kind of wild. So there is there is reasons why it seems to work, not beyond just, you know, something barbaric. And so interesting enough by zapping it new stimulating activity. And it gets your brain to release all sorts of things.

00;37;22;19 - 00;37;35;29
Manesh Girn
To comment that so could potentially be anti-inflammatory is that the brain responds to it, but it also up regulates neuroplasticity. It shocks neurons into activating a lot and increasing their plasticity. So there is some sense to it.

00;37;36;02 - 00;38;07;11
Maria
All right. But you know, I, I, you know, I, I used to go to chiropractors who would do a very aggressive crack, but if there's a gentler modality, I try to seek out the ones that kind of work, the muscles and then the spinal just kind of go back into, you know, gentler modalities, less invasive. My goodness.

00;38;07;18 - 00;38;09;25
Maria
Yeah. But okay.

00;38;09;28 - 00;38;18;07
Manesh Girn
And ECT is not necessarily helping people work through their trauma. You know, it's not working through their emotions. They're just being zapped artificially into feeling better more.

00;38;18;10 - 00;38;43;18
Maria
I've I've heard it could help break habitual patterns. And one of those could be on smoking or improving your diet. Drinking less alcohol for pain management. You mentioned. But do you have any kind of real life examples or stories, or have you yourself experienced a positive benefit?

00;38;43;20 - 00;39;04;21
Manesh Girn
Certainly. So, we can start there, I suppose, like, me many years ago, as a teenager, actually, which, you know, we can get into the whole adolescence thing. But, I think one of the, you know, what I had done for me is it allowed me to view myself and my life in a new way.

00;39;04;23 - 00;39;29;27
Manesh Girn
So at the time, I was, you know, younger, I was suffering from a bit of bullying. I was, didn't really know myself too well. And my self-esteem was in the highest. And psilocybin mushrooms allow me to, kind of see beyond that limited perspective. I was having seen my strengths and see my life in the new light, and actually inspired me to become a neuroscientist and inspired me to pursue a path of knowledge and learning, actually.

00;39;30;00 - 00;39;43;01
Manesh Girn
And note that that doesn't happen to everybody necessarily, as a teenager doing these things. But, it really inspired the deep curiosity, me curiosity and a connection to a love for learning. And so I, me that impacted me.

00;39;43;03 - 00;40;13;03
Maria
For a so for years, it was a gateway to, doctoral, post-doctoral, leading edge research, pioneering and maybe having this fantastic disruptive effect on, in a good way, helping improve people's lives. I appreciate you sharing that with me. That to me is better than any case study. I mean, you know, anecdotal evidence. We we have a lot of it.

00;40;13;04 - 00;40;18;17
Maria
What do you, as a scientist, how do you place value on anecdotal evidence? What do you think?

00;40;18;20 - 00;40;36;09
Manesh Girn
I think there's a lot of value in considering these case studies. And, you know, I mentioned myself, but I've heard countless people who overcame addictions or alcoholism or their depression or seen that in loved ones and so on. And well, use, of course, don't qualify as scientific evidence per se, but they tell us that there's something there.

00;40;36;09 - 00;40;49;18
Manesh Girn
It's not all, you know, there's something to being covered and understood. And so for me, these case studies provide hypotheses and ideas that then can be studied in more controlled studies. And that's exactly what we do.

00;40;49;20 - 00;41;24;00
Maria
You can't deny it. It you know, seeing is believing. And you and I come to it were drawn to these natural substances when, Western medicine just didn't have a good solution. And, I mean, thank God you found it as an adolescent and got what you needed, but, how wonderful. If it could be, normalized and just a standard treatment that doctors weren't fearful to discuss.

00;41;24;00 - 00;41;29;17
Maria
Does mindfulness that, affect your neuroplasticity?

00;41;29;19 - 00;41;52;11
Manesh Girn
It's a good question very lightly. I'm not sure if those studies necessarily have been conducted because, I can get into all the scientific details on why it's a bit hard to study, but I think mindfulness really does dovetail well with both cannabis and psychedelics. And, and it does certainly change your brain over time and allow you to regulate your anxiety and your emotions in a better way.

00;41;52;19 - 00;42;05;26
Manesh Girn
And it's to be a more grounded individual. I have a daily meditation mindfulness practitioner, and I have been since I was like 19 years old. So I've always prioritized the daily practice, and it's definitely been transformative for me.

00;42;05;28 - 00;42;26;25
Maria
You're a young man, but an old soul. And, don't go anywhere, everybody, unless you're driving. Because when we come back, we're we're going to debunk outdated myths and stereotypes and, nip it in the bud segment after this quick word from our sponsor. Some say age.

00;42;26;27 - 00;42;27;15
Manesh Girn
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00;42;27;15 - 00;42;30;15
Maria
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Manesh Girn
You get those nagging pains in places you didn't even know existed. 50 is the new for 20 to green Bay lifeguard.

00;42;41;18 - 00;42;49;29
Maria
You're leading cannabis media brain. In your. Changing the way the.

00;42;49;29 - 00;42;50;14
Manesh Girn
World sees.

00;42;50;14 - 00;43;18;10
Maria
Green. Hey. Welcome back. You're listening to Just Say KNOW. I'm your host, Maria Calibri. Some discussing natural ways to unlock our brains potential with psychedelic Neurosci. Scientist Doctor Manesh Girn on KCAA Radio 1050 AM, 106.5 FM. So now we're going that we're going to nip it in the bud. We're going to break some stigmas and look forward.

00;43;18;10 - 00;43;37;02
Maria
So cannabis myths versus reality, psychedelic myths versus reality. So many myths around cannabis and psychedelic use. What are some of the common misconceptions you've encountered? And, can you debunk them with what the research says?

00;43;37;04 - 00;43;57;12
Manesh Girn
Certainly. So let's start with cannabis. So one of the most common ones, and we were talking about this before the show started as well, is the idea of cannabis as a gateway drug. Now I've heard this growing up, a lot of people that it's just part of basically drug war propaganda. Essentially, it is what it is and there's no evidence in the epidemic.

00;43;57;15 - 00;44;28;08
Manesh Girn
Epidemiological studies, a large scale survey studies that that's the case. The things that lead cannabis to they get cannabis to lead to other drug use are related to your social environment, socioeconomic status, all these different factors, social factors and cultural factors. It's there's no evidence that cannabis use alone leads people to try other drugs option. It's a gateway to your fridge or a gateway to, you know, buying a bunch of snacks from your local 7-Eleven or something.

00;44;28;10 - 00;44;46;23
Manesh Girn
It there's no evidence that people smoke cannabis and then automatically go on to, you know, try a heroin or, cocaine or anything. Those are radically different compounds. And, I think that's it's a myth that should really does not exist anymore, but people seem to still believe it. But there's no evidence for it.

00;44;46;26 - 00;44;51;25
Maria
A big part of that is because they're both classified. It legally is schedule one.

00;44;51;28 - 00;45;16;26
Manesh Girn
Yeah. Which is absurd. And this is really funny, Maria, because you mentioned earlier the US had a patent on the medicinal use of cannabinoids going back decades, while at the same time the FDA was saying and DEA, it's schedule one, it's no, potential for medical use and high abuse potential when they had a patent showing that it's not that, you know, it's absurd.

00;45;16;29 - 00;45;22;11
Maria
As the door protecting and they weren't allowing the NFL and the football players. My god.

00;45;22;12 - 00;45;45;06
Manesh Girn
Yeah. Who could a really benefit that for a concussion recovery. And that's a topic we didn't talk about. But CBD is can be really helpful for, you know, recovery from a brain injury or a stroke for that matter. There's studies on this. So it's it's quite terrible, to be it's like anti-scientific, very politically and racially motivated.

00;45;45;06 - 00;45;50;10
Manesh Girn
We didn't get into the drug war, but there's all sorts of nonsense around that.

00;45;50;13 - 00;46;23;20
Maria
Follow the money. But guys don't just I think the first step, you don't have to go out and try magic mushrooms or go into therapy or even try cannabis, but just try to I, I applaud everyone who's listening because you're you're converting NO to K -N-O-W. And hopefully this knowledge will be useful because honestly, until people say enough is enough and complain, like all politics is local, you got to start on the local level.

00;46;23;23 - 00;46;53;17
Maria
The constituents, if they start demanding some better health care, only then will the politicians listen and it's all politically motivated and oh, it's just bad medicine, bad medicine. And it's it's it's it's it's frustrating, but and it's nobody's fault to to have the perception. Do you have but this conversation and just listening to it is an opportunity.

00;46;53;19 - 00;47;23;02
Maria
Let's, let's all go for a jog afterwards and expand our brains. So, yeah, dangerous toxic substance or powerful natural medicine? Sounds like it's a powerful natural medicine. And it's a gateway to greater understanding, greater empathy, greater adaptability. The planet's just getting more and more people on it if we can adapt and to exercise some flexibility.

00;47;23;04 - 00;47;43;23
Manesh Girn
So another one is that, then this is a nuanced one. But the idea that cannabis damages your brain. So I've looked personally at a lot of research literature on how brain imaging has shown differences in the brain, as with lots of cannabis use. And this is actually something that me and, and, a friend of mine, he's a Stanford, MD.

00;47;43;25 - 00;48;05;17
Manesh Girn
We're can publish this in a paper actually holds in the next six months or so. We reviewed every study, ever done on whether, cannabis use changes the structure of our brain. And we found is that a lot of, studies found increased size in certain brain regions. A lot of studies found decreased size in a lot of brain regions.

00;48;05;19 - 00;48;25;05
Manesh Girn
When we bring them all together, they cancel each other out. So what that means is this it's a mess of research that there's no conclusions that can be drawn on actual structural changes that last in your brain as a result of cannabis use. And, in terms of like and what that means from brain damage, it means there's no reliable effect.

00;48;25;05 - 00;48;48;26
Manesh Girn
And, if if we could say anything, it's that heavy. Chronic use in adolescence likely does cause, potentially damage to developmental changes in the way, you know, impairments in the way the brain might develop in certain ways. And that's a risk factor. I would certainly not advocate for a heavy chronic use, in teenagers or early adults for that matter.

00;48;48;29 - 00;49;10;15
Manesh Girn
It's all about moderation. And the research that that suggests that using it at reasonable dosages, not every day, but in a moderate way. Has minimal to no harmful effects. There's no evidence that that damage to the brain damages the brain, per se. And in fact, as we've been saying, depending on the strain, especially if it's a high CBD ratio strain, it can be even good for the brain.

00;49;10;15 - 00;49;33;17
Manesh Girn
It can even be anti-inflammatory and antioxidant, which are the two things that basically mean neural protectant in protecting the health of your neurons. And so it's a nuanced topic. I think the idea that, oh, you're going to smoke cannabis is going to damage your brain, is not true, can only potentially be true in extreme circumstances for young people, teenagers smoking a lot.

00;49;33;19 - 00;49;38;10
Manesh Girn
But it's it's a lot more nuanced than that. And the research is very messy.

00;49;38;12 - 00;50;13;04
Maria
And even, God forbid, if you're younger and you're struck with a terrible, terrible disease or like it's being, you know, a, God forbid, cancer, you have a pediatric case and you start using Rick Simpson oil or high THC. Again, if it's I mean, I don't know, I don't know what this study show of the effect if someone has a medical reason to take high strains, but even then, like it would probably be micro dose and a tolerance would be built than it would be monitored.

00;50;13;04 - 00;50;17;19
Maria
So it would come down to responsible use, I would think.

00;50;17;21 - 00;50;42;26
Manesh Girn
Yeah, I think everything in moderation. Right. And something I want to add here actually important is that if you look at the effects of alcohol on the brain, the amount of brain damage that alcohol creates, whether you're an adult or an adolescent, is for far greater than cannabis. Because alcohol is directly neurotoxic, cannabis isn't. Cannabis. Over time, will create changes in your brain and, you know, in a more subtle way.

00;50;42;28 - 00;51;05;25
Manesh Girn
Whereas alcohol, which every 19 year old or whatever, 1921 year old, they're binge drinking out there, they're partying with their friends, they're doing all these things, which is terrible. And that would that they're the amount of lifelong brain damage that happens to like 90% of youth who drink like that is, you know, is massive. And it's like, it's so culturally sanctioned.

00;51;05;28 - 00;51;27;13
Manesh Girn
Yet we're demonizing cannabis use, which, you know, in order to, even if you smoke chronic heavy cannabis as a 19 year old, it's not going to be as harmful as chronic binge drinking, for your brain. And people don't realize this because, again, there's all sorts of, misinformation and stigma around cannabis.

00;51;27;15 - 00;51;46;26
Maria
So Willie Nelson's 91 years old and I could say, I don't know how many decades he's been smoking cannabis for many decades. And, thank God it wasn't, alcohol. I don't know if he'd be here for his 91st birthday, let alone still doing concerts.

00;51;47;03 - 00;52;11;14
Manesh Girn
Because alcohol also speeds up dementia and Alzheimer's and cognitive decline. Alcohol does and cannabis doesn't. Cannabis. It can even protect against that. CBD is used to help with people with Alzheimer's. You're not going to prescribe somebody vodka for recovering from Alzheimer's, you know, or rom or whiskey or what have you. That's just going to exacerbate it. And so is there an important distinction?

00;52;11;20 - 00;52;39;18
Manesh Girn
There's so much cultural arbitrarily around it and just. Yeah. Do you even know something promising? Maria. Actually, there's statistics amongst like Gen Z and the younger generation, they're drinking less and less alcohol. And in fact, people are, you know, even going to parties and taking small doses of magic mushrooms, for example, like micro doses, as they're called, which is a tiny amount which you're not really it's not really a potent experience, but it can uplift your mood.

00;52;39;18 - 00;53;01;13
Manesh Girn
It can might slightly change your experience and, like mildly intoxicating, but definitely not like alcohol and not harmful for the brain like alcohol. So I think amongst young people who were born, let's say late 90s, even 2000s, they're, drinking much less than any generations previously. And so there's a downward trend there. So they're, they're growing up.

00;53;01;16 - 00;53;19;21
Manesh Girn
So and we like culturally we're growing up in certain cases. And there's a lot of maturity around these things and awareness that people who, you know, might have grown up and were an adult in the 80s with all the nonsense that was peddled back then, just, you know, it's hard because that's what you were taught growing up. And so it's hard to question that.

00;53;19;27 - 00;53;38;16
Manesh Girn
And there's resistance and fear. But I think we need to be open to the facts and what's real and what the science is telling us. Otherwise, we're closing ourselves off from a potentially extremely beneficial, holistic resource for our health, right? Which is cannabis and magic mushrooms to some extent.

00;53;38;18 - 00;54;19;14
Maria
And we're suffering as a society. We're in pain. We're just not enjoying life when we could be, just numbed out, getting medicated or drinking and then having the side effects associated with that. There's a whole world out there to discover and learn. But, you know, and it's always balancing, right? I think the hardest thing in parenting is setting healthy limits and, you know, not repressing the child, but you want to protect them and to be able to let go and let them explore and experiment.

00;54;19;14 - 00;54;47;15
Maria
Bad things can happen. So anthropologically we do we do for safety or, try to just say, you know, no, don't go there or, you know, but I just I hope people will before jumping to end. Oh, try to know, okay. And just, just become curious about things. My husband always telling me. I don't know why. I mean, I have to take a magic mushroom.

00;54;47;19 - 00;55;13;24
Maria
Maybe I'll do that and we'll do another episode and I'll tell you why. But no matter what that guy says, knee jerk, I say no, no, I don't know why. It's a defensiveness. It's a control thing. Right? But it's it's it's in there. And he gave me a good exercise. He said, could you could you try just saying maybe saying it's say jumping right to know whenever I say something.

00;55;13;24 - 00;55;22;20
Maria
How about yeah maybe. And then think about it. And it's not easy for me to do that.

00;55;22;22 - 00;55;42;25
Manesh Girn
Yeah. I mean I love that you're sharing this. And, you know, it's like a real experience in a lot of cases. For me, I think a really important skill to cultivate is a skepticism of your new knee jerk reactions and emotional responses. Right. It's like, oh, I feel yeah, you know, I feel this right now. I feel very aversive.

00;55;42;25 - 00;55;51;12
Manesh Girn
This feels wrong. It feels bad. Why do I feel that way? What if I just sat with it? What if I just breathe like, well, what if I question that a little bit? You know.

00;55;51;14 - 00;56;28;25
Maria
As we wrap up today's episode of Just so you Know, I hope we've managed to shed some light on the potential of cannabis and psychedelics, psilocybin as viable natural medicines when used responsible doctor Gorin has guided us through the science behind these substances, highlighting their unique role in mental and brain health, particularly through harness neuroplasticity. Our brains have a remarkable, remarkable ability to adapt and heal and heal, to adapt and heal.

00;56;28;25 - 00;57;03;25
Maria
So, I mean, who can be against that? A gateway to being more adaptable and to healing. Hey, sign me up while these topics go honestly, they can feel intimidating or even controversial. Emerging research is revealing promising benefits for those seeking natural turn to conventional treatments, or when conventional treatments just don't have an answer. We've learned that destigmatizing these medicines, it's going to require ongoing education and informed dialog.

00;57;03;25 - 00;57;33;15
Maria
Like today's episode. By understanding how these substances interact with our bodies and minds, we can move beyond the fears toward a more open, compassionate perspective on their potential, which which is documented. So let's keep the conversation going. I encourage everyone to visit our website, greenbeelife.com, where you can find educational programing on GBL TV and in our greenbeelife Learning Center.

00;57;33;15 - 00;58;12;07
Maria
There's articles, guides. Stay curious, continue educating yourselves and approach these topics with, as my husband likes to tell me to, how to approach him. Not with a no. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. No, let's let's approach them with an open mind and respect for the science. Before we sign off, I'd also like to offer you two super valuable resources to further your understanding of applying the knowledge we've learned from today's episode, visit Doctor Green's website at maneshgirn.com.

00;58;12;07 - 00;58;45;11
Maria
That's Manesh M-a-n-e-s-h. I run maneshgirn.com to download a free guide. Five Steps to Rewiring Your Brain with psychedelics. This PDF offers practical insights into harnessing the power of neuroplasticity. And for those listeners or health care providers wanting to take a deeper dive, check out Doctor Gordon's Masterclass, an e-book also at maneshgirn.com/masterclass.

00;58;45;13 - 00;59;19;29
Maria
It's an excellent opportunity to learn from a leading pioneering expert in this most critical field. Thank you for joining us on Just Say KNOW today. Remember, knowledge is powers, specially when it comes to your health and wellbeing. Stay curious, stay informed and always keep learning. Until next time. This is Maria Calabrese encouraging you to Just Say KNOW with a k and a W.

00;59;20;01 - 00;59;52;29
Maria
Just say know is a greenbeelife presentation airing live weekly on Friday afternoons from 4 to 5 p.m. Pacific on KCAA radio and KCAA TV. Archived audio episodes are on greenbeelife, greenbeelife.com, iHeart Radio, Spreaker and most third party major platforms. For archived videos, check them out on GBL TV on greenbeelife, YouTube and Rumble.

00;59;53;01 - 01;00;27;17
Maria
Our Instagram and Facebook is at Just Say Know Radio to apply to be a guest on the show or for sponsorship and advertising opportunities, go to greenbeelife.com/just-say-know and feel free to reach out to me Maria for any questions at Maria@greenbeelife.com or (818) 758-6925.