EPISODE 6

Unclear cannabis advertising laws create confusion for consumers and legal risks for brands. In this episode, Attorney Walter (Chad) Blackham from Mac Murray & Shuster breaks down how the patchwork of state and federal regulations impacts what you know—and what brands can legally say—about cannabis products. From misinformation and health risks to market instability and legal penalties, we explore the real-world consequences of regulatory inaction. Whether you're a consumer trying to make informed choices or a business navigating compliance, this conversation reveals why a cohesive regulatory framework matters—and what’s at stake without it.

Dec 13, 2024

00;00;03;18 - 00;00;48;06
Maria
Hello again and welcome to Just Say KNOW. I'm your host. Maria Calabrese coming to you on KCAA Radio 1050 AM, 106.5 FM Radio. What we've seen take place in the cannabis industry over the past several years has been the most rapid transformation of any sector I've ever witnessed. If you consider the cannabis plant with three harvestable components, each serving unique purposes, there aren't too many other crops that can claim that versatility.

00;00;48;08 - 00;01;24;24
Maria
And if you're wondering why this topic should matter to you, consumers and businesses alike. Well, the impact of regulatory inaction might just surprise you. So let's get ready to uncover how cannabis advertising and marketing laws, or the lack thereof, shape what you know, shape public perception and how brands can and cannot communicate about cannabis. Hey, whether you're a consumer looking for answers or a brand seeking clarity, this conversation matters because it affects all of us.

00;01;24;27 - 00;01;51;20
Maria
The more we understand, the better equipped we are to demand transparency and fairness from both businesses and policymakers. So sit back and relax as we explore some of the most pressing themes shaping the cannabis industry with some of the brightest minds in this space.

00;01;51;22 - 00;02;05;22
Intro Music
By 2020. Bank of America and Merrill Lynch estimate that will grow to $35 billion. And many experts believe it could eventually reach $200 billion each and every year.

00;02;05;24 - 00;02;31;29
Intro Music
Make me feel good like no other. I just want everyone to see what I see. Sky blue. And when I'm with you, I go higher. You lift me up. Now I can see so much farther. You're my rising.

00;02;32;01 - 00;02;38;27
Intro Music
You're my eyes.

00;02;39;00 - 00;02;40;11
Intro Music
I'm a butterfly.

00;02;40;11 - 00;02;53;28
Intro Music
Who has only begun taking me a while to get it. Had to live and cry. To appreciate life. Then what you get this way when you're holding me. When you hold me so close. Someone for the rain I know.

00;02;54;00 - 00;03;33;19
Maria
I'm thrilled to welcome today's guest attorney, Walter Chad Blackham from McMurry and Schuster. Chad is an expert in cannabis compliance to litigation, advising businesses on navigate the complex web of these inconsistent federal and state laws governing advertising, marketing, privacy, and consumer protection. He's played a key role in his firm's cannabis, CBD and hemp practice, helping businesses across the industry from startups to major enterprises, address challenges unique to the cannabis market.

00;03;33;22 - 00;04;15;17
Maria
His clients span the entire cannabis vertical, including cultivators process, ERS, dispensaries, physicians and patients. Chad's background includes regulatory compliance work at the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, giving him a unique perspective on statutory compliance, privacy and data security. He concerns for both businesses and consumers in today's cannabis landscape. Whether you're a cannabis entrepreneur seeking to stay compliant or a consumer trying to make informed choices, Hads insights will be invaluable.

00;04;15;18 - 00;04;20;07
Maria
So let's dive in. Welcome, Chad.

00;04;20;09 - 00;04;27;02
Walter Chad Blackham
Maria, thank you so much for what a wonderful introduction and what a tough act to follow. But thank you very much for having me on.

00;04;27;05 - 00;05;04;23
Maria
It's so great to see you again. Chad and I participated together in a National Cannabis Industry Association webinar. Really, really digging down into the legalities that his firm has put together a guide on unlocking cannabis compliance. So so, Chad, getting right into it. How exactly does the patchwork of marketing and advertising laws, with the absence of clear federal guidance, affect the information consumers receive about cannabis products?

00;05;04;26 - 00;05;24;10
Walter Chad Blackham
I don't, Maria, that word that you use, the patchwork of laws, that that is so apropos and that is so perfect. Because what we run into with this situation is something really, really unique. And, you know, the only kind of equivalent I can think of in any other area of the law is maybe Bitcoin or something else that's brand new, like cannabis.

00;05;24;10 - 00;05;46;24
Walter Chad Blackham
But every single state has their own unique cannabis regime. Now, of course there are crossovers. There's some blend, there's some feed over, some reciprocity. But what you're looking at here, as you aptly scribed, is a complete patchwork of laws. Now, when these regulators are making these laws, their primary focus is, of course, on the licensing, building out the facilities.

00;05;47;00 - 00;06;23;10
Walter Chad Blackham
Some of the ensuing regulatory compliance. But where does that leave marketing and advertising? Well, it usually leaves them on the back burner. So one thing that often happens is you'll have some of the other regulations and laws that have been built up for, gosh, nigh on 100 years at this point, subsumed in. You have all these rules, regulations and some that are by constructive notice, meaning they post something up on the website and you're expected to know that, but they're bringing in hundreds of years of, regulatory compliance work into the cannabis sector by virtue of these UDAP laws and consumer protection laws that we're going to be talking about shortly.

00;06;23;17 - 00;06;41;19
Walter Chad Blackham
So there's some commonality. A lot of states have similar you tap laws, but they all have their own jurisprudence. A court case in California does not have the same effect of law as a court case in Ohio. When you're looking at an Ohio law, and you mentioned as well there is the absence of clear federal guidance.

00;06;41;19 - 00;07;08;27
Walter Chad Blackham
And I, I love the way that you said that, because people often say that the feds haven't said anything. They've given no guidance, and that simply isn't true. It's just what they've given is so confusing, it's almost worse than no guidance. So we do have a lack of clear guidance. We have some conflicting opinions from the DEA, the FTC, on items, such as novel or minor cannabinoids like Delta 8 other cannabinoids such as CBN and CBG.

00;07;09;00 - 00;07;30;13
Walter Chad Blackham
So, we do have an overlay with the FTC through the FTC act. However, that also has these you tap laws that we're going to be getting into. So there again, is no clear set federal law governing the marketing advertising of cannabis. So we have to look elsewhere to these laws. Have been on the books for decades really.

00;07;30;20 - 00;07;39;04
Maria
Wow. And UDAP is unfair, deceptive, abusive advertising practices. Yes.

00;07;39;07 - 00;07;46;23
Walter Chad Blackham
Acts or practices. But you hit the unfair, abusive and deceptive parts and those are what the claims are. So you got it perfect.

00;07;46;25 - 00;07;51;06
Maria
And it's synonymous basically with consumer protection. Would you say?

00;07;51;08 - 00;08;15;28
Walter Chad Blackham
Yes? Well, one of the things people here think of when they hear of UDAP or unfair deceptive practices, they think, wow, this must be a really niche specific item that comes up in very limited circumstances. To the contrary, UDAP when I when I say UDAP, I want you to think of consumer protection. The two are absolutely synonymous, as you said.

00;08;16;00 - 00;08;41;27
Walter Chad Blackham
When an attorney general brings a consumer protection claim, they're doing it through a UDAP statute. When the 50 state attorney generals went after Big Tobacco, for some of their concerns around advertising towards children and marketing, it was through the UTEp statute. So, absolutely, consumer protection actions, whether from a private citizen or a government regulatory body, will be brought through these UTEp statutes.

00;08;42;00 - 00;08;59;19
Maria
Okay. And then what all are these loose patchwork of inconsistent laws? What type of legal challenges do they present for? Well meaning brand eyes as they try to navigate the confusing regulations?

00;08;59;21 - 00;09;23;17
Walter Chad Blackham
It's it's really interesting because especially in the cannabis sector, we have in an industry, we have so many brands out there who who truly are, in my opinion, really trying to do the right thing by consumers. They want to provide medicine or adult use products in the dosages described accurately with a consistent product that people know what they're getting.

00;09;23;19 - 00;09;44;28
Walter Chad Blackham
U there's good news when it comes to the patchwork of laws, insofar as there is a lot of commonality amongst them. So when we talk about UDAP, what is an unfair, deceptive, abusive actor practice? It's very subjective, right? It sounds like a catch all term. It is. But really it's any type of thing that a reasonable consumer might be misled by.

00;09;45;00 - 00;10;11;16
Walter Chad Blackham
I'm thinking, of course, of things like misrepresentations as to price the availability of a good the quality or grade of a good. You know, if I if I tell you I'm going to give you a certain grade of of steel, we then sell you a different grade. You'll probably be upset. That's you doubt. Similarly, every single state, despite the patchwork, has a anti deceptive law on the books, meaning deceptive acts and practices are prohibited.

00;10;11;17 - 00;10;33;18
Walter Chad Blackham
The federal government has the same thing through the FTC section five act. So businesses can take some heart in knowing that there is commonality among the law on the books. But as I alluded to earlier, the tricky part and where you need legal advice really comes in with the differences between each state. The law on the books might be similar, but it doesn't mean it's been interpreted the same in each state.

00;10;33;20 - 00;10;43;09
Walter Chad Blackham
It doesn't mean it's being viewed the same. It doesn't even mean that the regulators are enforcing the same laws. You know, in cannabis, some states are really big on pesticide enforcement in some art.

00;10;43;14 - 00;11;13;04
Maria
Wow, wow. And then back to the consumer consequence and state. Well on both of them, the consumer and the brands, the inconsistencies in the lack of clarity from these federal regulatory agencies commissioned to protect consumers, ends up leaving gaps in consumer education and protection, would you say?

00;11;13;05 - 00;11;38;25
Walter Chad Blackham
I absolutely would you know, there's there's a fine balance between regulation and overregulation, but we we really aren't at that balance on either side of the coin right now in the cannabis industry. You know, I teach a class over at Capitol Law School in cannabis law and policy. And my my students are always flabbergasted by the amount of problems that come up in the packaging and advertising space.

00;11;38;28 - 00;11;57;20
Walter Chad Blackham
You know, we begin the packaging and advertising section, and their first impulse is, well, the packaging can't lie. How much more can there possibly be? And then we get to the 70 pages in the book and they're like, oh my gosh. But let me bring one issue up for you in particular. Just THC amount. Right. When, when we're, we're simply measuring THC.

00;11;57;24 - 00;12;17;27
Walter Chad Blackham
Now, first off, THC content is not the end all be all of the effects that a particular cannabis product will have on a patient. So that in of itself is an issue that people think that is self-sufficient. But when we're looking at THC content, you know, we have three ways of measuring that alone. Are we looking at total THC to THC?

00;12;18;03 - 00;12;49;13
Walter Chad Blackham
Are we looking at only THC nine tetrahydrocannabinol? Nine. Are we looking at a THC per milligram analysis? We're saying, as is very common with gummies, ten milligrams per gummy, which is really a THC per weight analysis. So even within such a small thing is how do we measure THC? There's multiple variations, and you get into things like taxation, whether the other cannabinoids other than THC and CBD, minor cannabinoids are also listed on there.

00;12;49;15 - 00;13;10;28
Walter Chad Blackham
And of course, you get into things such as flavonoids, terrapins, which a lot of bud tenders may not necessarily be educated on, able to inform the consumers, let alone the consumers. Then then themselves. So consumers, first and foremost, often are not aware of their rights when it comes to these. You tap laws, they very often provide.

00;13;10;28 - 00;13;28;05
Maria
Nod to nod, not to interrupt. But you just hear where I was going with this interview. What's in it for me? What's in it for the consumer? And so you are you are right on point. So that's that's what I want to really dig down into.

00;13;28;07 - 00;13;58;01
Walter Chad Blackham
Absolutely. Well, what's in it for consumers is also what's in it for businesses in this type of space. And that's something you really do not see in a lot of industries. The reason for that, I think, is in a typical consumer business relationship, there's a somewhat adversarial relationship insofar as the business is trying to kind of really eke out a little bit more margin with the price that the consumer will find acceptable, to a point where the consumer's not going to reject the good.

00;13;58;03 - 00;14;18;23
Walter Chad Blackham
Cannabis is a little bit different in that respect. Consumers are often willing to pay over face value for their good. So long as it has proper consumer protections on it. You know, it's labeled properly, it doesn't have improper pesticides. It's been tested appropriately and has a proper certificate of authority. So what's in it for consumers? Why do they want their businesses to be legal?

00;14;18;29 - 00;14;38;26
Walter Chad Blackham
Well, the most important part is you know what you're getting. I talked, as you mentioned, a lot of, or some of my, clients are also patients as well as doctors. And one of the questions, or one of the issues I run into most often is consistency in the products. Right? You know, they they'll have an edible one day and then they'll have it the next day.

00;14;39;02 - 00;15;02;00
Walter Chad Blackham
And the effect is not the exact same. This is a consumer protection issue relating to the testing, gradients and consistency of the product. So what's in it for consumers is a more, more reliable, trustworthy and safe product. As we look to, you know, medicinal adoption. We'll get into this later, I'm sure. Reschedule three at the end of, this year, in the beginning of next.

00;15;02;03 - 00;15;31;05
Walter Chad Blackham
Consumer protection is going to be the name of the game. We know how cannabis has been viewed. It was viewed, back in the early 1900s as a potential health, item. Then there was a shift towards criminal enforcement through the war on drugs up until very recently. If we want to keep this streak going, if we want businesses and the government and consumers to continue to view cannabis is medicine or an adult use product, it has to be consistent.

00;15;31;05 - 00;15;42;16
Walter Chad Blackham
It has to be reliable. I mean, gosh, can you imagine if you go down to the to the liquor store, you buy, a pack of beer and oops, I'm sorry, this one has the same ABV as a bottle of vodka because we mixed it wrong.

00;15;42;18 - 00;16;17;21
Maria
That's what concerns me, the potential that the lack of clarity and consistency of the the legal framework has for unsafe products, and how there are businesses exploiting the regulatory gaps to the detriment of the consumers safety and public health. We need cohesive standards, right? That that will make the the risk being flooded with unsafe for untested products will help minimize that and reward the well-meaning brands, I would imagine.

00;16;17;23 - 00;16;51;29
Walter Chad Blackham
100%. And you see this actually with your in my work with NCAA and the marketing and advertising guidelines and why it's so important to put these across the industry very often. For instance, when when you look at some of the rules and regulations, for a processor, for instance, in many states, processors, for those who may not know, are often responsible for turning raw cannabis plant material into processed forms such as food, beverages, concentrates, edibles, things, things of that nature.

00;16;52;02 - 00;17;25;03
Walter Chad Blackham
Processors, in very many situations are subject to FDA regulations. They're interacting with what is essentially food. They're cooking in many of their operations. And, you know, even even anyone who's watched Bar Rescue or thought about opening a restaurant can tell you there's a lot of rules and regulations around keeping that clean. So what a lot of, states do is they slip right into the regulations, a single line that says you have to follow the, industry standards for this particular industry abide by this particular trade group's requirements.

00;17;25;08 - 00;17;42;22
Walter Chad Blackham
And these are, you know, it's a small single line in the rules and regulations. But that's a really big undertaking for a lot of these businesses. Some states require them to act with the type of propriety that a controlled substance lab would, a vestige of the fact that cannabis is still schedule one of the Controlled Substances Act.

00;17;42;25 - 00;17;54;12
Walter Chad Blackham
So it's really important that we start trying to find a way to unify this, to create a more cohesiveness in the industry. So businesses aren't, you know, battling the their own rules and regulations and can follow.

00;17;54;13 - 00;18;28;04
Maria
Yeah. And the challenge is that these brands are facing that want to operate responsibly in the legally gray space. There there's there's products that are literally dying on the vine. I hate when I have to disappoint a, a customer or a member of our green Bay leaf hive that falls in love with. I mean, so many of these CBD products behind me are no longer available.

00;18;28;06 - 00;18;54;25
Maria
I have to disappoint them and try to explain to them that the brands are just they can't carry as many SKUs, or they just despite having a great legal counsel like your firm offers, they just the exposure, the risk is too high. You have many CBD brands that that were very hopeful that the big box stores would carry them.

00;18;54;25 - 00;19;27;28
Maria
And you did see CBD products in the bigger box stores. But then because of this legally gray state space, the big box stores started to pull. And, the manufacturers just these brands are dying on the vine. And you mentioned the FDA and they're in action right under on evaluating CBD as an ingredient in food or supplements is a big part of it.

00;19;27;28 - 00;19;37;21
Maria
And it seems like there's a regulatory game of ping pong. So the FDA throws it back to Congress. Congress throws it back to the FDA. And then you have the DEA, the FTC.

00;19;37;21 - 00;20;11;03
Walter Chad Blackham
So it is an absolute mess. So the biggest change in cannabis policy in probably the last 70 years or so, since the Controlled Substances Act was implemented, was the 2018 farm bill. And what the 2018 farm Bill did, was it further legalized after the 2014 farm Bill, it further legalized hemp and hemp derived, CBD products. So hemp under the bill is defined as 0.3% or less tetrahydrocannabinol, nine THC, 9.3% or less.

00;20;11;05 - 00;20;37;25
Walter Chad Blackham
The fact that they defined it only with regards to THC nine is actually part of the problem. So we're getting a huge proliferation of all these CBD products, and many of them are legal, right? They've got the point 3% or less THC nine. But what we've really started to see is this whole new market that was not anticipated by the 2018 farm bill, not anticipated by cannabis producers, but was anticipated by the gray market.

00;20;37;27 - 00;21;03;15
Walter Chad Blackham
And we're calling this the hemp derived cannabinoid or minor cannabinoid market. So these are products that contain 0.3% or less THC nine meet the federal definition of hemp, are processed into CBD, so are federally legal CBD, but then contain extremely large amounts of other cannabinoids ranging from, you know delta eight to thc v thc a cbn CBD.

00;21;03;18 - 00;21;32;04
Walter Chad Blackham
You know there's hundreds of cannabinoids. The list goes on forever. So we're running into this very unusual situation where we have some products that are following the letter of the law, but almost certainly not the spirit in this puts consumers and cannabis producers in a really tough space. You know, technically these individuals are working with hemp, which is not cannabis technically, so they can take all the tax breaks and all the deductions and credits that these cannabis businesses simply are not able to.

00;21;32;11 - 00;21;54;26
Walter Chad Blackham
And, you know, what do they get for following the rules and regulations? They have a 60% effective tax rate. They aren't able to work hand-in-glove with regulatory advisors the same way as other businesses. And it's really a shame. So the CBD market is in a really, really tough spot right now. For that reason, we have this whole hemp derived cannabinoid issue is producers and consumer.

00;21;54;26 - 00;22;21;21
Walter Chad Blackham
And really the consumers I think are the ones who lose out here. You know, in many, in many states in particular that do not have medical or recreational or adult use cannabis, consumers are looking for a way to consume cannabis legally, and so many of them will turn to CBD. And what often happens is you'll have consumers in, they'll drive by stores and they'll say, we have THC here or Delta eight or by cannabis here.

00;22;21;24 - 00;22;47;17
Walter Chad Blackham
Yep. And what the consumers do not know is that these are hemp derived cannabinoid products. This isn't to say that all hemp derived cannabinoid products are bad. We could stand to get a little more information on some of this is the synthetic ones, I think. But we know things like CBN, CBD these are totally fine. But the problem arises when these hemp derived cannabinoid products are separated out from the typical cannabis regulatory regimes.

00;22;47;20 - 00;23;03;17
Walter Chad Blackham
The result is they don't they aren't subject to the same testing, same pesticide restrictions, same quality control. So you're really relying on the word of the manufacturer and producer rather than any type of consumer compliance efforts to verify what's going on.

00;23;03;20 - 00;23;32;06
Maria
All right. Well, hang on, you're at a perfect, perfect point because we're 20 minutes into the show and where I am in California, it is 420 and you have just dropped so many, you've just dropped 20 minutes of knowledge bombs on us. And every, every 420 we have, we take a moment to, ask our guests for a quick hit, quick get for 20.

00;23;32;06 - 00;23;33;09
Maria
What do you got for us?

00;23;33;14 - 00;24;06;15
Walter Chad Blackham
I've got a few. But in terms of a knowledge one, I've got a really good one that I think you might like. So CBD is legal, but as long as it contains 2.3% or less THC nine. But what a lot of people as well as, manufacture forms. What a lot of people may not know, though, is that these CBD foods and beverages that you find in gas stations or retail stores, those continue to be federally illegal, even if it's CBD, even if it's point 3%, even if it has no other cannabinoid in it whatsoever.

00;24;06;21 - 00;24;31;21
Walter Chad Blackham
And the reason for that is under the food, drug, and Cosmetic Act. With the FDA, a product can only be included in food or drink if it's generally recognized as safe or. And I'm not making this up for the segment or if it's grass, right? So unless the product is grass exactly. Unless it's grass has to go through a really, really lengthy review process before you put in food or drink.

00;24;31;23 - 00;24;51;16
Walter Chad Blackham
As you can imagine, CBD has been illegal for the past, you know, near 100 years don't have a whole lot of studies showing it's super safe, even though colloquially we know it is. And as a result, CBD is not grass. According to the food drug and Cosmetic Act and technically cannot be included in foods or beverages.

00;24;51;19 - 00;25;16;05
Maria
That was a knowledge bomb. It was a potent import in quick yet, and I'm going to use it because every time I run into somebody who tells me, yeah, but CBD is why should I? You know, I try to get people to care and understand and people will say, yeah, but CBD is legal. I'm like, well, kind of no, it's not, not if you put it in a gummy or drink mix.

00;25;16;05 - 00;25;31;28
Maria
Oh yes, I saw it at Walmart or the gas station, like you said. Well, I'm just going to play your quick hit. I'm just going to send them a link. So how do we bridge the gap? How do we bridge the gap to get to a path of clarity? What needs to change.

00;25;32;01 - 00;26;00;15
Walter Chad Blackham
So the first thing that needs to change, thankfully it looks like it's going to be happening quite soon. And that's the rescheduling of cannabis now. So currently cannabis specifically again tetrahydrocannabinol nine THC nine is a schedule one substance under the Controlled Substances Act. That is the source of cannabis is illegality. The reason there is a complete federal prohibition and.

00;26;00;15 - 00;26;11;16
Maria
Not to not to interrupt, but can you just explain to people because not everybody knows what that means to be public enemy number one? What does that mean? What is schedule one?

00;26;11;19 - 00;26;42;03
Walter Chad Blackham
Public enemy number one is right. So the Controlled Substances Act, places drugs on a schedule of 1 to 5, one being the most dangerous with the least medical benefit in five being, the least dangerous with the most potent medical benefit. Cannabis. THC nine is currently a schedule one drug. Me. It has no currently accepted medical benefits and a high potential for mental and physical addiction.

00;26;42;06 - 00;27;14;25
Walter Chad Blackham
The the the funny thing, as you may know, is the, FDA approved a CBD based multiple CBD, based anti, seizure, epilepsy drugs for children of specifically Epidiolex. A little bit ago, which seems to fly in the face of that as well as the grass designation of CBD. But really, it's quite ironic in that respect that they're, they're saying in one hand, you know, it has all this danger, but at the same time, there's certain government patents on seeds and other production methods.

00;27;14;27 - 00;27;40;09
Walter Chad Blackham
So it really is quite an unusual dichotomy. But the first thing that really needs to happen is the change of schedule one, which it looks like it's going to be happening. So there's a petition to move it to schedule three recommended by HHS. Health and Human Services kicked over to the Department of Justice. And this is this is a fun little quick hit for any attorneys out there, but the, rescheduling process for cannabis is entirely unique, whole, unique.

00;27;40;09 - 00;28;01;04
Walter Chad Blackham
It does not bear any other resemblance to any other type of rule change or regulation. Change. Very unusual. And there's been some uncertainty with the new administration coming in whether the schedule three change is going to continue to happen. Thankfully, it looks like it will, but schedule three is going to kick cannabis, into the third level of the Controlled Substances Act.

00;28;01;04 - 00;28;32;01
Walter Chad Blackham
Me has some currently accepted medical benefit and a low to mild potential for, psychological or physical abuse. So we're not quite there yet. It's but it's a lot better. And what's really important about the schedule three designation is for medical cannabis businesses. And you touched on it so beautifully, Maria, that this is, a health and adult recreational use issue, but a lot of the gateway in the, the way we get our foot in the door is through the medicinal aspect.

00;28;32;03 - 00;28;50;23
Walter Chad Blackham
And I don't want to speak for you, but I think we probably share similar views. And so far as that was, the primary uses of the plant is for medical benefit. But one of the great things about schedule three is these medical businesses are going to be able to use FDIC insured banks. Right now, cannabis businesses cannot use federally insured banks.

00;28;50;25 - 00;29;15;26
Walter Chad Blackham
They are this sounds, like, like a joke, but they're literally stuffing money into safes and then carrying tens of thousands of dollars in their car to their mattress. The schedule three designation is also going to open up a few more advertising and marketing restrictions for them, and is also going to enable medical, cannabis companies to potentially take credits and deductions.

00;29;15;26 - 00;29;39;25
Walter Chad Blackham
Currently, section two eight of the tax code, which I'm sure many of your viewers have heard the name, and if we have time, I have a fantastic story about how 280 came about. But currently to add prevents, cannabis businesses or any business dealing in a schedule 1 or 2 drug from taking credits. Her deductions, the effective tax rate for cannabis businesses because this is like 60%.

00;29;39;25 - 00;30;08;00
Walter Chad Blackham
In some cases, they're paying 60% of their revenue in taxes, extremely high. Once we get to schedule three, this won't be an issue. So they'll have banking access. They'll be able to raise capital, they'll be able to utilize the US tax code in the way literally every other type of business can. You know, I think one of the questions we need to ask isn't just how do we harmonize the federal laws to make things better for them, but how they managed to survive so long the way things are?

00;30;08;02 - 00;30;38;23
Maria
Yeah, exactly. I mean, on the road, from normalization to legalization. I mean, anyone out there who has this entrepreneurial spirit was coming at it from a well meaning place. Look at what you're saddled with. If if you think this is a green rush, think again. It's guys, this right, right this way. We need to turn it into a green revolution.

00;30;38;23 - 00;31;16;29
Maria
Because how could anyone enter into this business unless nothing against. But if you're a giant MSO, I mean, you have to. Or you have the lawyer up, there's just. You'll get wiped out and fines and violations. And then with 280, if you can't write off your business expenses on top of having the burden of of legal expenses that, like any in any other industry, and then you can't even write those cost off.

00;31;17;01 - 00;31;38;05
Maria
I mean, the consequences and the consequence back to the consumer is we want well-meaning brands to enter the space. And another episode, I'd love to have you come back for is the impact of social equity. I mean, how does anybody with a social equity like. Right, how do they even want a lawyer? Our phones are ringing off the hook.

00;31;38;05 - 00;31;51;00
Maria
Chat. Everyone wants to chat with you. There's so many questions. So let's hear the 280 e tech story. You've got, dispensary owners in LA burning to to hear the story really briefly.

00;31;51;00 - 00;32;06;18
Walter Chad Blackham
I that the social equity idea sounds amazing. And I would love to talk with you on that in the future, because a little bit of a teaser, our firm was actually involved in the most prominent social equity, litigation lawsuit in Ohio for our cannabis system. So.

00;32;06;18 - 00;32;09;03
Maria
Well, what was that? What was the lawsuit?

00;32;09;05 - 00;32;27;28
Walter Chad Blackham
It was the it was the Pharmacann lawsuit. Two ends at the end of pharmacann, but involved a bunch of companies. We were representing harvest. Gross. In that case, I'm sure it'll pop up if you check it. Right. But the two ads saw. Oh, gosh, I was really hoping we'd get to it, so that's fantastic.

00;32;28;01 - 00;32;31;08
Maria
So people curious, I.

00;32;31;10 - 00;32;58;02
Walter Chad Blackham
Hey, perfect. So, so section 280, as I mentioned, prevents businesses dealing with schedule one and two drugs, from taking ordinary or necessary business credits and deductions. All credits and deductions. Really? But the law came about, I believe in the 80s, there was, a young man who got pulled over driving, by a cop, and the cops searched his car, and he found fairly large amounts of cocaine.

00;32;58;04 - 00;33;25;16
Walter Chad Blackham
He found baggies, a scale, zip ties, and he said, okay, well, you're clearly trafficking cocaine. And he arrested the man for cocaine trafficking. At the man's trial, he tried to argue that as a cocaine trafficker, his profession was cocaine trafficking, and therefore, he should be able to deduct the costs of his scales, his baggies, his zip tie. And the court agreed with him because nothing in the tax code prohibited the deduction of an illegal business.

00;33;25;18 - 00;33;43;08
Walter Chad Blackham
So 280 was implemented after that man took the. I know it sounds too funny to be true, but it absolutely is. So 280, was implemented by Congress after a cocaine dealer successfully deducted his scales, baggies and ties, from his taxable basis.

00;33;43;10 - 00;34;32;21
Maria
Okay, well, you're reading my mind because our next segment is legal updates. And one of the things I love to do is ask our attorney guest for the craziest laws and then the most sensible ones. And my crazy law segment I call I'm not making This Up. So now you're telling me with certainty on my next episode, if I want to throw to a crazy law and I'm not making this up, I can actually say that First Lady originated from a cocaine dealer, claiming and prevailing on the assertion that he could write off his Ziploc bags and zip ties and all of his business expenses for running his illegal cocaine operation.

00;34;32;25 - 00;34;36;20
Maria
That that that was at one time, okay.

00;34;36;23 - 00;34;47;27
Walter Chad Blackham
That is completely correct. It is hilarious and comical as it sounds, but yeah, the as the saying goes, bad cases make good law.

00;34;47;29 - 00;35;04;18
Maria
Unbelievable. It's time for nip it in the bud. So, what's one of your, one of your, most common misconceptions you run into or something that you would just like to nipped in the bud?

00;35;04;21 - 00;35;25;23
Walter Chad Blackham
Well, I got a little bit of a fun one first, but, you know, there. And, of course, I'm not a doctor. None of this is medical advice. This is all based off of, you know, things I've read in my own opinion, edification. But one of the most common myths about cannabis is that it, negatively impacts your memory, particularly your short and long term memory.

00;35;25;23 - 00;35;54;23
Walter Chad Blackham
Short term, more so. But that can have really deleterious and negative effects over the long term. There have been fewer studies on this and many other things. A recent study actually two studies. The first was a long term longitudinal study out out of, Sweden in the Netherlands area, which found that candidate long term cannabis in this I believe this was the first in potentially the only current, long term longitudinal cannabis based study looking individuals over around 20 year period.

00;35;54;25 - 00;36;20;08
Walter Chad Blackham
It found no correlation between cannabis use and negative, memory, short or long term for long term users using, you know, ten plus years or more at least to join her day, which is how many these studies classify heavy users as well. So that's really a big significant part. The other one is that there was a recent study, and a lot of people might get a kick out of this, that cannabis use actually may help prevent Alzheimer's.

00;36;20;10 - 00;36;46;12
Walter Chad Blackham
And that specifically high CBD forms of cannabis can act as a neuro protectant, for your synapses and help help the, signals in your brain, fire and get sent faster. Cannabis has also been shown to potentially create new neural pathways in your brain. What's really interesting about that is when we associate new neural pathways in the brain with drug use, cannabis is a drug we often associate in a negative way.

00;36;46;16 - 00;37;08;12
Walter Chad Blackham
It might be forming an addiction pathway. In the case of opiates, for instance. What we see with cannabis, interestingly, is some of these pathways are remarkably similar to your brain's normal pathways, just in different sections, not creating the same addictive tendencies, but potentially providing the same protective benefits.

00;37;08;15 - 00;37;13;01
Maria
Schedule one my,

00;37;13;03 - 00;37;15;12
Walter Chad Blackham
Exactly, exactly.

00;37;15;12 - 00;37;45;12
Maria
Yes, I you know, I was familiar with the, second study we had in, episode three, we had Doctor Menashe Gern, a neuroscientist from UC. Yeah, UC San Francisco, and he's in Robin Carhart, Harris's world renowned lab studying the effects of psilocybin and cannabis on the brain. And he had talked to us about that second study you mentioned.

00;37;45;12 - 00;38;06;17
Maria
And when you talk about a neuro protectant, one other thing to help substantiate your nipping this myth in the bud, and who better than to ask a lawyer? The U.S. government had the patent and, cannabinoids as a natural protectant until very recently. Is that correct?

00;38;06;20 - 00;38;09;29
Walter Chad Blackham
It absolutely is. Yes.

00;38;10;01 - 00;38;59;15
Maria
How did the, Well, that's another episode. Well, I have an episode on Harry Anslinger, the 1937 Marijuana Tax Act. Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. We'll follow it through this 1970s, the 80s war on drugs. That's a whole other episode. But I think it is so critical and important for people to understand the consequences of this being on a schedule one, and then how those consequences parlay into the advertising and marketing comply and and how that impacts brands well meaning brands guys which impact you looking for top shelf premium products that literally are up in smoke?

00;38;59;18 - 00;39;28;10
Walter Chad Blackham
You know the comment there too? The reference to Anslinger was you highlight a really fantastic part of what the war on drugs really did. So cycling back a little bit, we talked about the grass designation generally recognized as safe. How do you determine if something is generally recognized is safe? Right. Well, the federal standard and this is a federal law under the food, drug, and Cosmetic Act is in order to determine something is grass.

00;39;28;17 - 00;40;02;17
Walter Chad Blackham
You need what is referred to as reliable and competent scientific evidence. Now how how on earth do you get reliable and competent scientific evidence on a schedule on drug that nobody is allowed to study? It's kind of a catch 22 rock and a hard place thing, right? So Anslinger and the Control Substances Act in the War on Drugs, all this put us in a cart before the horse situation where we're saying it's not generally recognized as safe, but we're not going to allow you to study its effects to make any further determinations on your own behalf.

00;40;02;20 - 00;40;33;22
Maria
It's in a box. It's in a box. And who better than attorneys to make a case for it? I mean, it's it's it's in it's improperly imprisoned. So we got a busted out. We got busted out people. But it's the people have the power. So, moving in to consumer insights and tips, speaking about people having the power, I mean, what are the best ways for consumers to find a trustworthy brand in between all of this?

00;40;33;22 - 00;40;39;12
Maria
Navigating this, evolving market with all these twists and turns and nuances?

00;40;39;15 - 00;41;08;17
Walter Chad Blackham
Well, the first thing in consumer can do is do their own research. You know, the larger companies are generally fairly reputable. If they've been around for a while in the space, they must be doing something right. But you can also do is you can actually look at your local regulatory authority. For instance, in Ohio, this would be the Department of Commerce, and they'll list all the enforcement actions and the letters and the warning and the concerns, that they send to these companies.

00;41;08;20 - 00;41;31;20
Walter Chad Blackham
Sign up for local mailing lists for trade industry groups, maybe a local cannabis group in Ohio. That might be, oh, can I California normal, for instance? They send out plenty of, amazing newsletters and updates. And, you know, these consumer groups, their their primary focus is also consumer protection. So getting involved, getting knowledgeable about the products is the first step.

00;41;31;23 - 00;42;03;08
Walter Chad Blackham
Also also learn what works best for you. We talked about this a little bit at the outset. There is such a prevalent view in marketing and advertising cannabis that THC content is king, that consumers are always chasing the biggest THC high that they want massive 90% concentrates or 30. I saw, a flower, being advertised as 38% THC content when I was in Vegas this past weekend.

00;42;03;11 - 00;42;08;02
Walter Chad Blackham
And I have to tell you, first off, I don't believe it. Second off, who wants that?

00;42;08;05 - 00;42;10;18
Maria
That is right.

00;42;10;21 - 00;42;11;18
Walter Chad Blackham
So when it comes to.

00;42;11;18 - 00;42;14;24
Maria
Making we not the majority of consumers.

00;42;14;24 - 00;42;33;21
Walter Chad Blackham
Certainly not the majority. And, you know, there's there's certainly a market for these specialty niche products. But if you have an average consumer who's got, you know, they're coming to a bud tender and they say, I have trouble sleeping or I have glaucoma, it makes my vision bad. What do I do? And they're not knowledgeable about the effects of Tur pins and other cannabinoids.

00;42;33;21 - 00;42;54;27
Walter Chad Blackham
You know CBN can have been all is is great for sleep. THC nine not so much CBG a little iffy if they're if the bud tender is you know oh you have severe pain I'm going to give you the strongest product we have that may not be best for that particular individual. Maybe they need some, beta care.

00;42;54;27 - 00;43;02;27
Walter Chad Blackham
A filing is a terpene that is fantastic for pain management. Maybe they need that, or then they need a high THC content.

00;43;02;29 - 00;43;06;10
Maria
But what what would you find that in? What would you find that in?

00;43;06;13 - 00;43;21;19
Walter Chad Blackham
So. So, it depends on the product and how it's manufactured. Europeans can be inserted and taken out as needed. But you raise a really interesting point that many states do not even list what terpenes are on their way.

00;43;21;19 - 00;43;21;27
Maria
Right?

00;43;21;27 - 00;43;54;07
Walter Chad Blackham
Yeah. So that's a whole separate issue outside of even the THC content. And then again, most states are only listing THC, THC, and CBD. You're not you're not getting any knowledge about any of the other cannabinoids, let alone all these other phytochemicals inside of the plant. And then, of course, you run into things such as the entourage effect, where many people believe that, when all of the cannabinoids are included together, they have a more cohesive kind of group effect than if you single them out as an isolate.

00;43;54;09 - 00;44;16;06
Walter Chad Blackham
So the first thing consumers really need to do is find what works best for them. And the way to do that is to find a knowledgeable bud tender with a dispensary you like and if possible, aim for products that provide the most possible amount of information on THC content, terpenes and also growing in production methods such as pesticide usage.

00;44;16;09 - 00;44;22;29
Maria
Very important. And I mean, this is assuming you're in a state where it's illegal.

00;44;23;02 - 00;44;23;13
Walter Chad Blackham


00;44;23;13 - 00;44;26;01
Maria
So the so-called legal right.

00;44;26;03 - 00;44;28;02
Walter Chad Blackham
Absolutely.

00;44;28;05 - 00;44;57;17
Maria
Wow. Well Chad I mean and that is for products with more than 0.3% THC, that would be if you're in a state words legal, you would get that from a dispensary. But the point you're making is all these measurements and benchmarks is based on THC. But when you're going to a dispensary, it's not that you're just going to get something that's gotten greater.

00;44;57;17 - 00;45;25;13
Maria
CBD the point 3%, it's because it's not like you said, you're not looking for something with 38% THC. It's so much more than the promise of chasing a high. It's the intention behind it. And you mentioned some people would like to have it as an option for sleep, as opposed to pharmaceutical drugs that don't work for them or have too many side effects.

00;45;25;16 - 00;46;09;29
Maria
So it's the intention behind it and it's not the THC that's going to be the be all and end all. It's the vital cannabinoids, it's the terpene profile, but it's nuance that's nuanced. The science is nuanced, the applications are nuanced, the law is nuanced. And I just love speaking with experts like yourself. And guys, I have to say, as a business owner and someone trying to make my way in this space as a publishing company, having to be very, very concerned about what type of advertising and marketing materials brands want me to put forward.

00;46;10;01 - 00;46;34;01
Maria
You need firms like Mac Murray & Shuster I can't say enough about Mac Murray & Shuster, because just, for the other businesses out there, I'm sure they've all gone through what I've gone through. I just want to get my hats off to Mac Murray & Shuster Chad, whenever I'm looking for, legal counsel. Yeah, that's just one other suggestion for businesses.

00;46;34;01 - 00;47;02;05
Maria
There you go. Consumer insight and tips, which businesses look for when you're looking to hire a law firm. What I what drew me to your law firm. And having you here as a guest today is you guys have, prolific your founders. If you could speak a little bit about them past history in unregulated spaces and there are so many not badmouthing anybody.

00;47;02;05 - 00;47;29;24
Maria
And you're teaching this is so exciting at a university law to the next generation of our legal experts in this evolving marketplace. But what should businesses look for when looking for a law firm? My pain point was it was disparate. I would talk to one law firm and say, can I get a trademark on this? They'd say, yes, and now they're a law firm.

00;47;29;24 - 00;47;55;13
Maria
They'd say, no. Another law firm that would say, well, I need a $10,000 retainer. And it seemed like they wanted tens of thousands of dollars from me to write a white paper on it to educate them. So I can't say enough about you guys, but I think it's because you're sitting on the shoulders of two incredible women, female founded law firm.

00;47;55;15 - 00;48;07;07
Maria
Tell us a little bit about the founding partners and about the history. And for the businesses out there, what do you look for when you're vetting a law firm? Because this is the wild, wild West.

00;48;07;10 - 00;48;32;19
Walter Chad Blackham
It it really is. So we're we're me in particular. I'm absolutely blessed to work where I do it. Mac Murray & Shuster, our founding partners are Helen McMurry and Michele Schuster. But as you know, it's a woman owned law firm. They're both absolutely incredible. Really just inspiring women. They both came, all of our partners have they in particular came from separate big law firms?

00;48;32;27 - 00;48;54;10
Walter Chad Blackham
They both had histories in consumer protection offices as consumer protection chiefs in the Ohio Department of Commerce. So really storied, decorated, public service record, great service in the private sector for extremely large, powerful law firms. And they both kind of were sitting around looking at each other one day and they said, you know, there's got to be a better way.

00;48;54;10 - 00;49;12;05
Walter Chad Blackham
There should be a better work life balance. There's a point at which, you know, you can't really produce more beyond what you're doing. How do we do this? How do we create a firm that's oriented towards the future and the next generation of talent? And also specifically, what areas of law do we look at? So they created Mac Murray & Shuster

00;49;12;10 - 00;49;34;09
Walter Chad Blackham
I cannot say enough positive things about the firm in this that just because they pay me. But it is I've worked in a lot of places is the best place I've ever worked. And what really makes it unique is everyone here has come with experience from highly regulated niche areas, whether it be consumer protection. Yeah, absolutely. Consumer protection.

00;49;34;12 - 00;49;56;25
Walter Chad Blackham
Telemarketing. I defend telemarketers, but I never like to tell anybody that because they assume I'm a bad guy. But just like our cannabis clients are telemarketers are the compliant ones. So we bring experience from these really highly regulated niche areas with very few or very complex laws. We do a lot of privacy work as well that the regulators look at very intensely.

00;49;56;28 - 00;50;15;17
Walter Chad Blackham
They brought me on, in around 2017, 2018 and asked me what I saw as a gray area for the firm. I told them cannabis and they were, gracious enough to give me the opportunity to start the practice group and expand it. So what do businesses need to look for? Well, they need to look for that, I think.

00;50;15;17 - 00;50;16;17
Walter Chad Blackham
And I'm not just saying that.

00;50;16;17 - 00;50;22;08
Maria
Because I agree. I learned the hard way. I learned the hard way, but I agree.

00;50;22;10 - 00;50;43;20
Walter Chad Blackham
Well, you need you you know, you learn the hard way, but you you learned the right way at the same time because too many people go down the track with the wrong firm, and then they're two years into it and they realize it. But the thing with the cannabis sector you really need to look for is you need someone who has been in the system from the beginning, who knows the law intimately.

00;50;43;20 - 00;51;06;26
Walter Chad Blackham
You don't want someone who's an employment lawyer who knows a little cannabis, a privacy lawyer who knows a little bit of cannabis. You want a cannabis lawyer? First and foremost, who knows employment, who knows privacy? In in, you know, we're lucky because we defend a lot of consumer. We defend a lot of, class actions, billion dollar lawsuits, despite our small size, which is really, kind of unique.

00;51;06;26 - 00;51;25;20
Walter Chad Blackham
So we've had experience in all these other areas as well. So it's not just the cannabis related stuff, but when you're looking for someone with cannabis issues. And we talked about this at the outset, there's no overarching federal law. There's there's a patchwork of law. There's no single one that applies. That doesn't mean there aren't federal laws that apply.

00;51;25;20 - 00;51;28;18
Walter Chad Blackham
They still are. You know, it's while.

00;51;28;22 - 00;51;39;27
Maria
On the hook for them. You're still on the hook for them. You mentioned something earlier about constructive notice. I mean, whether you know they exist or not, notice is out there. So you're on the hook.

00;51;39;29 - 00;52;06;15
Walter Chad Blackham
I mean, and gosh, Marie, that's such a good point. Speaking of knowing if it's out there or not, I'm not sure for any get to it later. This, large lawsuit you and I had chatted out about a bit before. But there is a $2 billion lawsuit ultimately reduced to a paltry 955 million on appeal. But but there's a $2 billion lawsuit against a health and CBD supplement marketer.

00;52;06;18 - 00;52;25;25
Walter Chad Blackham
And the law that the people sued under relates to telemarketing, the telephone Consumer Protection Act. I guarantee you 90% of cannabis companies have not even heard of that law yet. There's a $2 billion lawsuit out there against the company for it. And it applies to any company making calls or texts to their, to the clients, which cannabis companies certainly are.

00;52;25;25 - 00;52;33;25
Walter Chad Blackham
So what you need to look for someone who knows the cannabis issues first and foremost. But you also got to find someone who knows those blind spots.

00;52;33;28 - 00;52;48;05
Maria
And those ancillary issues that relate. So, Chad, I could talk to you forever. I hope you'll come back. This has been amazing. Now I'm a fan of Murray and Schuster. I will disclose that I'm not a client. I'm a fan.

00;52;48;08 - 00;52;52;24
Walter Chad Blackham
We're a fan of you in green Bay life as well, but that's no secret.

00;52;52;26 - 00;53;23;18
Maria
So before we close today, I just want to thank. Thank you, Chad, for sharing your your expertise, your insights into these legal challenges that do surround cannabis marketing, advertising and affect consumer protection. You know, your work, the work at McMurry and Schuster, it's critical as we strive for a more equitable and informed, yes formed right cannabis industry.

00;53;23;20 - 00;53;57;11
Maria
As we've explored the lack of clear, clear regulation has consequences. It has high stakes, for consumers, it creates confusion, misinformation, potential health risks from unsafe products. Coming off of eight decades of an education vacuum, worse than an education vacuum. Misinformation. Yeah. You know and yeah. And and for consumers it becomes harder to trust the products they buy.

00;53;57;14 - 00;54;32;03
Maria
And unless they're excited about them really getting the positive effects, they're not going to create the conversation for their policymakers to know that not only do we need to reschedule it, we need to schedule it at the end of the day. And, you know, these legal gray areas can very unintentionally put consumers and businesses at risk, especially when you mentioned not one state has, a uniform system.

00;54;32;03 - 00;54;54;19
Maria
Every state has different laws. But and then you have federal laws and then you have federal regulatory agencies that are in conflict with one another. Or the legality is ambiguous. It's vague. It's ambiguous. Congress says from the hemp farm bill. Yeah, AMP is legal. If it's got 0.3 percent, but then the FDA has something to say about it.

00;54;54;19 - 00;55;24;08
Maria
The DEA has something to say about it. The FTC has something to say about it. So, you know, right. So for brands, the stakes are, are are very high. And we need to support brands that are struggling to find their way to be pioneers through this maze. To preserve premium top shelf brands. The risk of legal penalties to these businesses that are trying to do it right.

00;55;24;11 - 00;55;59;07
Maria
The challenges they're faced with communicating responsibly with unclear boundaries, the overall market instability, it makes it difficult for even the most ethical companies to operate confidently. And the instability, I'm sorry, it stifles innovation. It increases cost. And that impacts all of us. Because whether you're for cannabis or not, it's not just the promise of chasing a high which which again, there's a time and place, but it it people depend on it.

00;55;59;07 - 00;56;27;23
Maria
There are pediatric cases where it's the only thing that helps with seizures. And unfortunately it's now an ingredient in a anti-seizure drug, Epidiolex. But it's a game changer for many people where pharmaceutical drugs just don't have a solution or the side effects are too negative. And, you know, it's also a great alternative to alcohol. That's a whole other episode.

00;56;27;23 - 00;56;54;20
Maria
But, we need a cohesive, fat regulatory framework that benefits all of us. And it's, it's it's important because that's what will foster trust, safety and growth, both in the marketplace and in our communities. Which is a whole other topic, because in California, for everyone legal dispensary, there's for you illegal ones, and that's a whole other thing.

00;56;54;26 - 00;57;19;20
Maria
But until that framework exists, education is our most powerful tool. So I'm like your biggest fan because you're teaching and you found a platform, a university that's got it on their curriculum. So you go, Chad, you know, and as consumers, what can we do? Well, we got to stay informed. We've got to ask questions. We've got to do our research, like Chad said.

00;57;19;23 - 00;57;53;10
Maria
And we've got to hold both brands and policy makers accountable for brands, focus on transparency as much as you can and compliance and get the right advice for compliance. You don't know it all. Trust me, there are. I don't even want to know what what potential violations are out there that as business owners, we don't know about, but I'm sure Chad can tell us it has already, today a good amount of them.

00;57;53;10 - 00;58;15;13
Maria
So we're all part of this evolving landscape, and together we have the power to shape it and we want to shape it responsibly. Your feedback is invaluable, so please reach out with any questions or comments about today's episode, and reach out with any other topics you'd like to hear in the future. You can connect with us on social media or through our website.

00;58;15;13 - 00;58;41;12
Maria
Thank you for joining me today on Just Say KNOW. Remember, knowledge is power and together we are redefining cannabis. One conversation at a time. Until next time, stay informed, stay curious, and for God's sakes, Just Say KNOW. That's no with a k k and oh w they were they were two consonants off when they were saying, Just Say KNOWw.

00;58;41;15 - 00;59;17;28
Maria
So that's it. Thanks a lot. Just say know is a greenbeelife presentation airing live weekly on Friday afternoons from 4 to 5 p.m. Pacific on KCAA radio and KCAA TV. Archived audio episodes are on greenbeelife, greenbeelife.com, iHeart Radio, Spreaker and most third party major platforms. For archived videos, check them out on GBL TV on greenbeelife, YouTube and Rumble.

00;59;18;00 - 00;59;52;16
Maria
To follow us! Our Instagram and Facebook is at Just Say Know Radio to apply to be a guest on the show or for sponsorship and advertising opportunities, go to greenbeelife.com/just-say-know and feel free to reach out to me Maria for any questions at Maria@greenbeelife.com or (818) 758-6925.