EPISODE 8

Discover the unique connection between Hanukkah and the cannabis industry in this special Just Say Know with Maria episode. Featuring Rabbi Yaakov Cohen, cannabis entrepreneur Seth Rutherford, and investor Alan Shorr from 253 Farmacy, we explore Kosher-certified cannabis, the challenges of launching a dispensary, and the lessons of perseverance from Hanukkah. Learn why Kosher cannabis matters, how faith intersects with the industry, and what it takes to succeed in a highly regulated market. Tune in for an enlightening conversation blending tradition, business, and resilience in the evolving world of cannabis.

Dec 20, 2024

00;00;02;22 - 00;00;36;02
Maria
Hello again and welcome to Just Say KNOW where we spotlight the innovators behind cannabis news products and the groundbreaking ideas driving the legal cannabis movement with some of the smartest minds in the industry. Thank you for tuning in. I'm your host, Maria Calabrese on KCAA Radio 1050 AM, 106.5 FM,. Am honored and privileged to be joined today by an incredible panel of voices that are as lively as they are diverse.

00;00;36;05 - 00;01;10;12
Maria
Alan Shorr is an entrepreneur, cannabis investor and multiple Tony Award winning Broadway producer who brings his expertise from a variety of industries to the cannabis space. Seth Rutherford is the founder of waterworks, providing a sustainable water management system to the island of Nantucket and an owner operator of an award winning dispensary in Massachusetts. Seth joins us with Roots in agriculture since childhood and Rabbi Yaacov Cohen.

00;01;10;14 - 00;01;38;16
Maria
Rabbi Cohen is the founder of Whole Kosher Services and the president of Returning Light, a nonprofit dedicated to the study of Torah and Kabbalah. He will share insights into the intersection of faith, tradition and kosher certified cannabis. Together, we'll dive into some of the most pressing topics shaping the cannabis landscape, including what it really takes the start of cannabis business.

00;01;38;19 - 00;02;12;14
Maria
Given the threats and chAlanges of operating legally in a federally illegal space, green rush or bust, and most importantly, in the spirit of the holiday season, we'll explore lessons of perseverance learned from the story of Hanukkah and the concept of kosher cannabis. What it means to be kosher certified cannabis. So get cozy, but not too cozy if you're driving, and get ready to find out what happens when a Broadway producer or a rabbi and a farmer walk into a dispensary.

00;02;12;17 - 00;02;27;28
Maria
Because the rules and regulations we established now at the crossroads of federal legalization will shape the future of cannabis for generations to come. So let's dig in and explore just what's at stake.

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Intro Music
By 2020. Bank of America and Merrill Lynch estimate that will grow to $35 billion, and many experts believe it could eventually reach $200 billion each and every year.

00;02;41;20 - 00;03;08;07
Intro Music
Don't make me feel there like no other. I just want everyone to see what happens. Sky blue. And when I'm with you, I go higher. You lift me up. Now I can see so much. By the way, you're my rising.

00;03;08;09 - 00;03;15;05
Intro Music
You're mine as well.

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Intro Music
I'm a butterfly who has only begun taking me a while to get. He had to live and cry, to appreciate life. Then what you get this way. When you hold me.

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Intro Music
When you hold me so close. Someone better in under your skin..

00;03;31;11 - 00;03;57;16
Maria
Welcome everyone to today's show. I'm looking forward to exploring today's topics through the lens of innovation, resilience and Hanukkah In Hebrew, Hanukkah means dedication and the holiday celebrates the rededication of the Temple in Jerusalem in the second century BCE. After a small but determined and blessed group of Jewish fighters liberated it from occupying forces.

00;03;57;18 - 00;04;40;24
Maria
So what does this have to do with cannabis, you're probably wondering? Well, despite its legalization in most states, cannabis remains federally classified as a schedule one drug, a designation that falsely, and I might add, recklessly equates it with dangerous substances like LSD or heroin being tested, no medical value and a high potential for abuse. Yeah, this contradiction creates unique chAlanges for the plant entrepreneurs, consumers, and advocates, forcing their very existence, their very survival against significant odds that affect us all.

00;04;40;26 - 00;04;56;15
Maria
I've asked our panel to join us today. I wanted to start with Alan Shorr, as an entrepreneur in the space, to give us an overview of the challenges of starting a cannabis business in today's legal landscape. Welcome, Alan.

00;04;56;18 - 00;04;57;08
Alan Shorr
Hello, Maria.

00;04;57;10 - 00;04;59;06
Maria
So good to see you again, Alan.

00;04;59;12 - 00;05;00;29
Alan Shorr
It's nice to see you also.

00;05;01;00 - 00;05;11;13
Maria
Thank you. Thank you for joining us. You're going to have great insights. But before diving in, I'd like you to tell our listeners a little bit about your entrepreneurial background. In your own words.

00;05;11;16 - 00;05;39;20
Alan Shorr
I didn't realize I was an entrepreneur until somebody told me I was. So I, I was always trying to do things differently. And from the time that I really went to, left college, you know, graduated and till the other half through the rest of my life, I always thought there are better ways to do things. And if and the people that I was working for doing other things, I thought, well, and I'll try it my way.

00;05;39;20 - 00;06;13;08
Alan Shorr
And then somebody said, well, you're really an entrepreneur. And I said, okay, well, if that's what you want to call me. So my background was in music theater and something that has nothing to do with music and theater, which is accounting and finance. But believe it or not, they do go together. And as a result of that, what I've been able to do is employ my skills from an accounting and from a financial background to help create different companies in the financial services world.

00;06;13;08 - 00;06;34;24
Alan Shorr
Now the cannabis world. And believe it or not, the the accounting and financial skills that I have acquired over the years is really helped me in being a producer in the theater world, because it's really about numbers, and part of that is making sure that you stay with budget, that the budgets correct and everything is done the right way.

00;06;34;26 - 00;06;56;04
Maria
If you've never had the pleasure of being in Woody Alan's, office in New York over his desk, he has a sign that says it's show business, right? Not show show. So you are spot on. How do you connect these skills to this cannabis industry?

00;06;56;07 - 00;07;19;00
Alan Shorr
The same way you would connect the skills to any industry? Being in the financial services world is one of the most highly regulated, least, I thought, highly regulated industries in the world. You've got multiple agencies. Governmental, non-governmental agencies are always looking over your shoulder. You've got all kinds of compliance issues that you have to adhere to.

00;07;19;03 - 00;07;43;08
Alan Shorr
So the cannabis business is similar in the fact that it's regulated. You've got compliance issues, you've got the same financial concerns of any other business. So the skillset that a person, any person might have in running or starting or managing a business can be employed and can be an entrepreneur in any kind of business, including the cannabis business.

00;07;43;08 - 00;08;14;13
Alan Shorr
And without that skill set, it's going to be very chAlanging for anyone to be successful in really in any business. And part of that, and the most important part of that, which is true, again, for any kind of business, is surrounding yourself with people that are better than you, that know more than you, and they're specific. Whatever it is that they do, whether it's growing or in the cannabis business or or wholesale or whatever it happens to be, and letting them take the ball, let them run with it.

00;08;14;17 - 00;08;35;26
Alan Shorr
They make a mistake. They make a mistake, but certainly let them do the things that they do best and stay out of their way so that everybody stays in their own lane. And if you allow that to happen, the chances of success are greater than if you try to step into somebody else's possession or somebody else's leg.

00;08;35;28 - 00;09;06;02
Maria
Well, before I dive deep in with you into advice for starting a cannabis business, speaking of surrounding yourself with people smarter than you, I am surrounded by. It's an embarrassment of riches. So I just want to bring in next, the rabbi to tell a little bit about his background, in his own words and what he has to do with cannabis.

00;09;06;02 - 00;09;13;29
Maria
And then we'll bring Seth in, and then we'll dive into the interview with my first question to Alan. Rabbi, welcome.

00;09;14;01 - 00;09;15;19
Yaakov Cohen
Great to be here.

00;09;15;22 - 00;09;19;11
Maria
Very special to have you here, because I understand you're in Israel.

00;09;19;13 - 00;09;20;14
Yaakov Cohen
Yes.

00;09;20;16 - 00;09;25;09
Maria
I'd love to have you tell us a little bit about yourself in your own words.

00;09;25;11 - 00;09;52;08
Yaakov Cohen
Okay, quickly. You know, I was not always a like many people were not a rabbi before the rabbi. I wasn't raised religious. I was raised very secular. I didn't become religious until I went to Israel when I was 19 years old. And then I was in a rabbinical school and spent, 19 years there. And then I got married, raise the family, start a family, and then moved to, to Texas.

00;09;52;10 - 00;10;21;06
Yaakov Cohen
So and that's when I got involved in, and being involved in kosher food and kosher services. And of course, the branched out and the quick background story is I had a son who was diagnosed as having brain cancer. He did pass away after a year and a half, but during that time he, when he had a relapse, we were introduced into cannabis.

00;10;21;09 - 00;10;49;08
Yaakov Cohen
I had already been doing kosher, food production and giving kosher certification to various other industries. And, but here was the cannabis industry. My son was I was we were trying to give him cannabis in terms of all of the research that was done. And so my father and some friends says, why don't you go and work and see about making cannabis kosher?

00;10;49;08 - 00;11;14;27
Yaakov Cohen
Because this and it has such medicinal properties, people need it. People are going to be looking for it and they'll be much more comfortable if it's kosher. So that's when I reached out to as well. We spoke Tracy Ryan of Cana kids, other places in California. I think that's where it started first and started to make, very many products kosher, offering kosher services until I.

00;11;15;03 - 00;11;38;18
Yaakov Cohen
And then, of course, I was introduced to 253 organic on the, on the East Coast. Yeah. Woo woo woo. That was great. And yeah. So you know I was really excited to go there and help them out in terms of getting their kosher certification. It was a really a lot of fun. It's such an awesome dispensary a great place to visit.

00;11;38;18 - 00;11;49;02
Yaakov Cohen
The drive there. It's just amazing. So and I always enjoy going and making my usual routine kosher visits.

00;11;49;04 - 00;12;21;21
Maria
That's amazing. Amazing. My my condolences for your son and my my hats off to you for when Western medicine doesn't have a solution for going beyond. I can't even imagine as a as a parent first of all, going through something like that. Second of all, having to make the decision to try cannabis, and to have gone to that point to have to do that.

00;12;21;24 - 00;12;28;11
Yaakov Cohen
And it was very experimental, like nobody knew really knew what was going on and or any kind of.

00;12;28;13 - 00;12;57;27
Maria
You mentioned Cana kids, Josh and Tracy Rye, and they're just an amazing, amazing couple. And of course, their little girl Sophie, who was afflicted with a brain tumor. And, you know, back then, I mean, what a mom will do for their child. Tracy actually was able to get Cedars-Sinai Hospital in Los Angeles to give her, a piece of her two year old's brain tissue.

00;12;58;00 - 00;13;19;05
Maria
Yeah, and she transported it herself in an igloo cooler on a plane to Israel. Could you just tell us quickly before we bring in the next smart one here? Smarter than all of us. Seth, just tell us a little bit about the difference in how Israel approaches, medical marijuana and marijuana in the United States.

00;13;19;07 - 00;13;42;22
Yaakov Cohen
It is stricter. It's harder to get a prescription. It's only medicinal. I have a very tight knit on the production where it flows and things like that. You know, it's not so easy. You could just walk into a dispensary. It's it's, you know, so there are much there are a few more hoops to go through in order to, to get the medicine.

00;13;42;24 - 00;14;00;05
Maria
Yes. The hoops aside, it is medically available and has been for decades. So what they have on the United States and the rest of the world is a jump on the research. In fact, it was an yeah. So they have an add that obstacle or burden.

00;14;00;05 - 00;14;16;16
Yaakov Cohen
So they were when we were in Texas with our son Alicia, we were debating whether to go to California or Israel because Israel had the research, but we wouldn't be able to access it if we oh my. So we went. We opted to go to California.

00;14;16;18 - 00;14;28;07
Maria
Yes. So it's, you know, legalization, it impacts so many people from so many different walks of life and in so many different ways.

00;14;28;09 - 00;14;52;25
Yaakov Cohen
We're all we're all we're trying to crawl out of the stigma, you know, we're trying to help people crawl out of the stigma, which is really what I'm about, you know, because to make it available and offer it to be kosher, you know, medicinal wise, you know, still, a lot of people in my circles are still very much against it, even though it's an edible, even though it's, you know, medicinal, they'll let it.

00;14;52;25 - 00;14;59;13
Yaakov Cohen
But usually, by and large, you know, they still have that stigma. There.

00;14;59;15 - 00;15;03;21
Maria
We've got a mountain to climb, but, I'm glad we're doing it.

00;15;03;21 - 00;15;05;05
Yaakov Cohen
The Maccabees are about right.

00;15;05;05 - 00;15;08;03
Maria
That's right. And I'm glad fighting here.

00;15;08;03 - 00;15;11;22
Yaakov Cohen
We're against the, the the big Fed.

00;15;11;25 - 00;15;16;14
Alan Shorr
That's right. For this, Seth, I have I have a question for the rabbi.

00;15;16;16 - 00;15;20;03
Maria
Okay. Sorry Seth Oh my goodness. Go ahaed. Alan.

00;15;20;06 - 00;15;25;20
Alan Shorr
When Moses went up to mount Sinai in the burning bush, what was that bush made of? And where he saw all

00;15;25;21 - 00;15;26;27
Yaakov Cohen
Oh, no.

00;15;27;00 - 00;16;07;00
Maria
Oh my goodness. That's when the God ayahuasca. Oh, was Alan when the gods spoke, there was smoke. So, absolutely. So sad that you have your roots as having been working on a farm since the age of 11 years old. Somehow the labor laws, that was legal. But. All right, don't get me started. So, And you have this background and knowledge in sustainable agriculture.

00;16;07;00 - 00;16;41;13
Maria
You're the founder of waterworks. Having come up with a water management system to serve as Ireland's, like the island of Nantucket. And you are a co owner and operator of one of Massachusetts's most premier award winning pharmacies. 253 Farmacy. That's pharmacy with an F. So tell us a little bit about yourself. And 253 Farmacy. And Alan I want you to take notes because we're going to do cannabis the musical okay.

00;16;41;15 - 00;16;42;04
Seth Rutherford
Well I think.

00;16;42;11 - 00;16;43;00
Yaakov Cohen
I...

00;16;43;03 - 00;16;52;05
Alan Shorr
Actually did something like that called Flight Over Sunset a few years ago. That just didn't work. But it was it wasn't cannabis. It was other drugs.

00;16;52;08 - 00;16;55;16
Yaakov Cohen
Hahaha.

00;16;55;19 - 00;16;57;13
Yaakov Cohen
Right. Well, Maria, I'd like

00;16;57;14 - 00;17;17;27
Seth Rutherford
to start off by thanking you for having me. I very much appreciate your time and being able to join. I'm a, Massachusetts resident, born and raised in Western Mass and Western Mass. You know, as you as you stated, is is really all about agriculture. I live here, you know, right here in Hadley. And Hadley, mass.

00;17;17;29 - 00;17;37;14
Seth Rutherford
Is, you know, has has, I think, the second best topsoil in the world behind San Joaquin Valley in California. And I ended up marry into a, farming family as well, farming anything from tobacco to asparagus to corn. And, you know, they do have some cattle kicking around for all the excess, you know, vegetables that they don't sell.

00;17;37;14 - 00;18;08;01
Seth Rutherford
And so when I was 21, I had an opportunity to move down to Nantucket with my partner. So, you know, Joe and I moved down to Nantucket and started waterworks and, we're very fortunate to move to, a place like Nantucket and have been in and, you know, work for some probably, you know, some of the, the wealthiest people in the world that really care about their landscapes and care about their homes and really gave myself an education there, just, you know, learning, you know, learning all the different aspects of, you know, building sustainable landscapes.

00;18;08;04 - 00;18;27;03
Seth Rutherford
I was, I was I was elected to what was called the article 68 board. What the article 68 board was. We were trying to find a way to limit the nitrogen and phosphorus use on Nantucket so that we would not pollute our estuaries. And when and through that board, we, we developed, a BMP, which is the best management practice.

00;18;27;06 - 00;18;50;05
Seth Rutherford
And currently, I believe it still is a success in the state on nitrogen use. And we limit the nitrogen use on Nantucket at 3 pounds per thousand. And so that we really try to educate, you know, landscapers and the tradesmen and women you know, how to properly apply fertilizers so that you are not you you're you're keeping a healthy landscape, but you're not damaging, you know, the environment around you.

00;18;50;07 - 00;19;14;16
Seth Rutherford
And, you know, cannabis was always, you know, I always use that. I'm a very energetic individual, and I always use cannabis as a way to calm down, in a way to just mellow myself out. And, you know how I always had a real passion for it. And from there, you know, in 2008 came around. We really had a passion to get into it, you know, a where builders where we're in the landscape trade.

00;19;14;16 - 00;19;49;09
Seth Rutherford
We understand, you know, plant water maintenance. And we ended up, you know, finding were very fortunate enough to find Alan and Marcia as partners. And I think that's one of the really things that that separates two, five, three is, is the partnership that we were able to bring together because we were able to bring professionals from all different, you know, walks of life, lawyers, financial people, construction people, landscape people, and really kind of bring everyone together to run a very complex industry that doesn't have data, you know, to look up and to see what to do.

00;19;49;09 - 00;20;07;02
Seth Rutherford
It's really something that, you know, you have to really make good decisions and see them through. And pivot on a dime. If if the decisions that you made seem to be going in the wrong direction. And so, you know, we we ended up, partnering Chris and I partnered with I went to Marcia and, we built our own facility.

00;20;07;02 - 00;20;21;01
Seth Rutherford
We operate our own facility. So, you know, we're very unique company and we really worry about quality, worry about bringing a quality product to the table for customers. Something that a customer could find relief and whatever they're looking for.

00;20;21;03 - 00;20;45;05
Maria
Well, I'm. You're in a perfect spot. When to segue from quality. We're 20 minutes into the show and in California it is for joining. So every, show up for 20, we have a segment called Quick Hits. So we're going to get a quick hit where I'm going to ask the rabbi to drop a knowledge bomb for us.

00;20;45;05 - 00;20;58;02
Maria
And the quick hit that I'm going to ask him is, Rabbi, what is kosher? And and how does it become certified?

00;20;58;02 - 00;21;33;22
Yaakov Cohen
So, you know, talk about what kosher is. First of all, you have to understand kosher does not mean blessed by the rabbi. Okay, there's a series of laws, the criteria that comes from the Five Books of Moses covering an entire spectrum of different foods, everything from meat to dairy, fish, fowl, bugs and grapes. So all of these different levels of food or areas of food have different criteria that meets kosher standards, like your animal needs two signs to be a kosher animal, right, Alan?

00;21;33;22 - 00;21;36;13
Yaakov Cohen
You know which two signs those are.

00;21;36;16 - 00;21;47;06
Alan Shorr
It has to its code and it has to, have the security code and have a clo and hoof hook.. Yeah.

00;21;47;09 - 00;21;50;26
Maria
Ding ding ding ding ding ding. We should mark that look for the knowledgeable.

00;21;51;03 - 00;21;53;26
Yaakov Cohen
Rabbi of the day. Okay? I'm not here.

00;21;53;26 - 00;21;58;04
Alan Shorr
That I came from a very religious home and became secular later.

00;21;58;07 - 00;22;34;09
Yaakov Cohen
Oh, yeah. So, so that's an animal has to have those signs. And even if it has those signs and it's not properly, ritually slaughtered, it's not kosher. So if it's cow was not killed in the ritual slaughter way, even though it's a kosher animal, so anything of that cow or any derivative of that which gets into cannabis because of a gelatin for most of the most of the industry, uses gelatin, either from a pig or cow that, not kosher that to make their gummies okay.

00;22;34;09 - 00;22;59;06
Yaakov Cohen
Of course many are making from pectin. That's a different story. But let's say dairy, we don't mix milk and meat. You know, we have an issue of bugs not just to zero in on cannabis. The plant itself, like any other plant or vegetable, has no problems with being kosher, like an apple or a banana. The only issues with certain vegetables or fruits is a predominance of insects.

00;22;59;06 - 00;23;14;13
Yaakov Cohen
Because we're not allowed to eat a bug according to the Torah, we break six, five, or five commandments if we eat a bug, okay? And if you know there's bugs in there, you got to wash it and check it before you eat it. Right?

00;23;14;13 - 00;23;17;07
Maria
You are a friend of Green Bee.

00;23;17;10 - 00;23;51;26
Yaakov Cohen
Yeah haha. Green bee I was wondering, oh, is it a bee that's green? Or the okay, so the so the plants themselves. I did go to Mendocino. We give gave a kosher certificate to a farm there. I did check there and they have this these very little insects called thrips in the buds. Talk about the flower tops. So I asked a very big rabbi about it, and he says, well, because most of the people are burning it because they're smoking it, so the bugs are getting burned.

00;23;51;26 - 00;23;59;21
Yaakov Cohen
So there's no problem of the bugs if they're eating it, like in a salad, which some people I've been describing California raw.

00;23;59;22 - 00;24;01;17
Maria
Yes, raw, raw form.

00;24;01;17 - 00;24;23;06
Yaakov Cohen
But then you have an issue. It has to be cleaned of bugs, and I don't even know if it can be because of the stickiness of it. So, so therefore, predominantly, mostly the so the flower tops really don't really need a kosher certification, but it helps because of marketing, because don't forget, kosher is not just for religious Jews.

00;24;23;08 - 00;24;48;29
Yaakov Cohen
Kosher, kosher. It could extend to, Muslims, vegetarians, vegans and health conscientious people looking for that. There's a third set of eyes looking on this product to guarantee that it's safe. Okay, so that's why people at a grocery store, 60% of the things in the grocery store are have a kosher symbol on it. 6,060% of the items at any grocery store.

00;24;48;29 - 00;24;59;09
Yaakov Cohen
Now, in the in the United States. And people will always choose an item with the kosher symbol over an item without a kosher. So because they know there was another pair of eyes, it's a marketing.

00;24;59;11 - 00;25;03;12
Maria
It's a gold standard. It's a gold standard, correct?

00;25;03;14 - 00;25;30;09
Yaakov Cohen
Yes, absolutely. So then when you now moving on past the bug. So then when you process the bugs into oils then you get into solvents and things that come in contact with the plant. So you have to make sure those solvents are coming from kosher sources. The biggest solvent that's used most likely today is, is ethanol. Now ethanol, everybody will instantly think it's it's corn.

00;25;30;09 - 00;25;53;27
Yaakov Cohen
It's a weed. It's not necessarily there are ethanol that are made from grapes, which present a kosher issue, because we have a very strict rule about our grapes or even grape juice. It has to be squeezed from an observant Jew until it's bottled for sure. Wine, because we use it in rituals. All the times the rabbis made very strict decrees that it has to be a Jewish wine.

00;25;54;00 - 00;26;23;25
Yaakov Cohen
So ethanol could be made from grapes. Ethanol could also be made from whey, which is a cheese which is also a big, huge kosher issue. So we have to make sure that the ethanol or any solvents that are used in order to make the, the oils have to come from kosher sources. And then when you go on to that, let's say you're when you're making your edibles like any other kosher material, all the materials have to be kosher the chocolate, the sugar, the flavorings, the gummies, the pectin.

00;26;23;27 - 00;26;37;26
Yaakov Cohen
All of those items have to meet certain so certain specific kosher criteria in order to be kosher. Okay. So and then there's of course to maintain the equipment. So that's the kosher industry in a nutshell.

00;26;37;28 - 00;26;51;06
Maria
Oh it's fascinating. And what's really fascinating is I'm going to just start a movement that everyone in Congress, everyone and all the decision makers have to get bar mitzvahed, because.

00;26;51;08 - 00;26;51;20
Yaakov Cohen
You.

00;26;51;20 - 00;27;25;00
Maria
Guys were able to work this out with Jewish law. But America. Right. So, thank you. My goodness. Say it again there. And there's always a solution. Which brings me to the cannabis running a cannabis business, Alan, the cannabis industry is estimated to employ over a half a million people, right. It includes approximately 12,000 licensed retail locations.

00;27;25;00 - 00;28;01;05
Maria
It's estimated to earn $30 billion a year more than the Baseball League, National Football League and NBA combined. Yeah, it remains classified as a schedule one substance, presenting a set of chAlanges that, like you said, start ups and other industries aren't faced with. So my question to you is, given the current legal landscape and the chAlanges that they present to running cannabis business, who is making all the money?

00;28;01;05 - 00;28;07;16
Maria
Is anybody making any money? And what inspired you to enter this space?

00;28;07;18 - 00;28;34;28
Alan Shorr
Okay, so the first question is really easy to answer. Who's making all the money? The the state for health for life. With that, we're in the feds. They're making all the money because they're they're taxing cannabis companies on income that they don't really have. And the tax that cannabis companies have to pay is different than any other industry in the United States.

00;28;34;28 - 00;28;45;13
Alan Shorr
So that's that's so that's the easy answer to your question. What's what inspired the question was what inspired me to do this shit?

00;28;45;15 - 00;28;45;24
Yaakov Cohen
Yeah.

00;28;46;01 - 00;28;52;00
Alan Shorr
Well, not understanding what the federal regulators were going to tax us on.

00;28;52;03 - 00;28;53;12
Yaakov Cohen


00;28;53;14 - 00;29;16;03
Alan Shorr
And the, the idea that with any business, if you can run it efficiently and you, you can mitigate the tax issues, that you can and you have good partners and, and you know, what you're doing, then you can you can make it work despite the tax burden. So that's really what it was because I had no clue.

00;29;16;05 - 00;29;23;24
Alan Shorr
I mean, not a scintilla of an idea of cannabis up until the time I met Seth and Chris. Nothing.

00;29;23;26 - 00;29;34;00
Maria
None of us did. I can't tell you how many people in the state of California didn't vote for legalization, or say they wish they hadn't.

00;29;34;03 - 00;30;01;12
Alan Shorr
Yeah. So it's you know, it's a business just like show business or the or the legal business or the broad, you know, the entertainment business in general. And it all has its quirks. But the cannabis cannabis business is probably least in Massachusetts, the most regulated industry in the entire state with the highest burden of taxation. And that's just not it's not basically not fair.

00;30;01;12 - 00;30;02;02
Alan Shorr
And I thought.

00;30;02;02 - 00;30;05;07
Yaakov Cohen
California was higher.

00;30;05;10 - 00;30;11;17
Alan Shorr
I don't I don't think so. I think we're talking about federal taxes and federal state.

00;30;11;17 - 00;30;20;00
Yaakov Cohen
I don't know, federal. Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Federal schedule one correct. Yes. Yeah. They're able to tax it.

00;30;20;03 - 00;30;21;15
Alan Shorr
Excuse me.

00;30;21;17 - 00;30;30;12
Yaakov Cohen
Isn't it considered to be federally? What what group? What group one or level one. Yeah. Or. Right.

00;30;30;14 - 00;30;56;14
Alan Shorr
Yeah. So it doesn't allow you to take deductions for or in the ordinary course of business without getting too technical under section 162, ordinary business expenses that every other business is able to take, accelerated depreciation and other things that businesses are entitled to. And therefore you're paying tax on literally phantom income. And that's just I just think, yeah.

00;30;56;16 - 00;31;26;12
Maria
A 280 originated in 1981 during the Reagan administration. And I'll tell you, Rabbi and Seth, I know Alan, you know this. I'm not sure if you do accept, but it came about when a convicted cocaine trafficker argued in court that he should be allowed to deduct his legitimate business expenses. The zip ties were his cocaine trafficking, etc., etc., etc., and displayed his business being illegal.

00;31;26;15 - 00;31;59;21
Maria
He was able to deduct business expenses. So 288 came in response to that, Congress established the rule which prohibits anyone involved in trafficking controlled substances from deducting their business expenses and as long as cannabis is on that list of controlled substances, it it can't deduct any of its expenses, such as becoming certified kosher, storage and transportation, banking, franchise fees, packaging, marketing.

00;31;59;21 - 00;32;01;20
Maria
None of it is tax deductible.

00;32;01;27 - 00;32;03;20
Seth Rutherford
electric bills. ..

00;32;03;22 - 00;32;22;05
Maria
There you go. So I could speak for I think a legal cannabis operator could face a federal tax rate of around 70% in addition to the state and local taxes. And on top of this, in Los Angeles, there's a 5% excise tax.

00;32;22;10 - 00;32;41;11
Seth Rutherford
So an analogy there. You know, if you're running a retail store and if you did $1 million a year in business and a half $1 million was the product that that retail store bought to resell, that retail store would pay tax on a half $1 million. The only thing you would be able to dock is the product you bought.

00;32;41;18 - 00;33;01;21
Seth Rutherford
So you would you would pay tax on your labor, your parking, you know, your your snow plowing, anything above and beyond. And so, you know, in the early days when the margins were high and I'm talking the early days of Massachusetts, when we opened in 19. Margins were high. There wasn't a lot of retail stores. We were able to pull and pull profits.

00;33;01;28 - 00;33;17;26
Seth Rutherford
As this industry continues to condense and get saturated, it's really become catastrophic for companies. And, you know, they're just not able to survive on margins because you need exponential margins to continue to pay the federal government.

00;33;17;29 - 00;33;19;18
Alan Shorr
Told you he was smart.

00;33;19;20 - 00;33;23;25
Yaakov Cohen
Is it still getting saturated the market, in your opinion?

00;33;23;28 - 00;33;45;10
Seth Rutherford
Well, I think, you know, I mean, I mean, the answer to that is I stutter a little bit. I think we're hopefully on the verge of coming the other way. You know, we we were down to like $4.50 a gram on the retail side. And when we get down to $4 a gram, producers can't produce it for $2 a gram, say, live.

00;33;45;17 - 00;34;18;29
Seth Rutherford
And so when I'm talking at retail at 450, so and when the retails for and these retail stores are Keystone, we're very close to the bottom if we're not there yet. And just in the last month, we've seen some very big operators close their doors in Massachusetts. And I think that that's going to continue. And so, you know, to get back to, you know, what Alan was saying about cannabis, you know, how it's how it's very unique, you know, instead of, you know, a lot of businesses where you're you're looking to increase revenues in cannabis, you're looking to reduce costs.

00;34;19;01 - 00;34;44;10
Seth Rutherford
You run that business on cost base, and you don't take risks if costs are associated due to the taxes, because those costs turn into income to you and you have to pay more phantom income. And so it's a very difficult business. So it's really a lean and mean business model to stay alive and debt free. Like I say, you know, people ask, well, how do you survive in cannabis.

00;34;44;10 - 00;35;14;06
Seth Rutherford
And it's decisions, right? But it's like, well, don't write a check because every check you write is income to you, even though you're giving it to someone else. Okay. So it's you know, it's really you know, it's kind of the, you know, it says you really have to be very cognitive, of how you operate. And, you know, at two, five, three, we've always taken the approach where we don't have a huge wholesale department and we don't have a ton of marketing because a lot of companies get themselves in trouble where they they spend more to make less.

00;35;14;09 - 00;35;21;15
Seth Rutherford
And you really have to watch your bottom lines and be conservative and, and, and concentrate on yourself.

00;35;21;17 - 00;35;28;14
Yaakov Cohen
You should have a blessed thing. We should have a blessing, a continued blessing for continued success and growth.

00;35;28;17 - 00;35;57;25
Maria
Well, Alan and and Seth, and even with the rabbi's blessing, you gave the best advice. You have to go low and slow. You have to be lean and mean. You have to be able to survive legalization. And it's it's really a conundrum because you don't have access to financing that other startups have. Many financial institutions aren't going to want to touch it if the government's deeming it illegal.

00;35;57;28 - 00;36;21;00
Alan Shorr
Maria, I'll give you an example of how bad it is. I had an American Airlines Advantage Citibank card, and I got about a year and a half ago. I got a, a notice on them saying, we've canceled your card. And I said, why? And they said, because you own an interest in a cannabis company and it's federally illegal.

00;36;21;03 - 00;36;33;27
Alan Shorr
I said, oh, at the same time, they're also Citibank, banks, the state of New York's cannabis business. So it's like, okay, well, why can you do one and not the other? But that's how bad it's become at times.

00;36;33;29 - 00;36;59;06
Maria
Oh, it it is. And, you know, necessity is the mother of invention. So anyone who can survive this should be on the cover of fortune 500. I mean, it's going to take minds as bright as this panel, and it never hurts to have the rabbi's blessing. But, all these entrepreneurs that jumped in believing the. Hey, this is going to be the next Silicon Valley.

00;36;59;13 - 00;37;14;08
Maria
It's the next big giant among growth industries, guys. It's a green revolution, not a green rush. So if you're thinking of going into it, be prepared to join the revolution.

00;37;14;11 - 00;37;25;23
Alan Shorr
Well, I'll go. I'll go one step further, Maria, unless you're at least in Massachusetts, unless you're vertically integrated, you cannot make money. Period. It's just impossible.

00;37;25;25 - 00;37;31;03
Maria
Can you explain to our listeners what a vertically integrated license means?

00;37;31;05 - 00;37;36;17
Alan Shorr
I can now, because Seth taught me. So I'm going to let Seth, my teacher, explain it better than me.

00;37;36;20 - 00;38;02;10
Seth Rutherford
So a vertically integrated facility, a vertically integrated means that you do everything yourself where you have your own cultivation, manufacturing and your retail outlets. And so, it's really in Massachusetts. It's really coming down to the verticals are able to, you know, weather this storm much easier than stand alone standalone retailers if they're in a very good location, don't do okay.

00;38;02;12 - 00;38;31;13
Seth Rutherford
Standalone cultivators and standalone manufacturers, unfortunately, are taking a beating right now. And it's really not fair because the wholesale rates, like I explained before, are so bad at $4 and, you know, at $2.25 if you want to, if you want to look at it that way, they're virtually not making anything. And, you know, a lot of these in a lot of the small companies are mom and pop companies like two, five, three that have invested everything they've have to get into this.

00;38;31;15 - 00;38;49;29
Seth Rutherford
And, you know, they're a lot of them are tied to all sorts of leases and personal guarantees. And it's and, you know, and and another really unfortunate fact in the cannabis industry is there is no bankruptcy. You go you go into receivership and you lose everything you own. And and I think that's why a lot of people hang on longer than one might think.

00;38;49;29 - 00;39;09;03
Seth Rutherford
They, they would. But it's, you know, it's it's definitely not all roses behind the scenes in the state. The state always. And the federal government always, you know, puts out how much sale, how many, how much sales there are. But it really doesn't equate to the to the profits behind the scenes.

00;39;09;06 - 00;39;39;15
Maria
Wow. And I'd like to just move on before turning to the strength that we can glean from the story of how an act, like to move on to how all of these federal action, all the competing state regulatory down to the local level, all the different federal agencies commission to protect consumers, how all of this regulatory game of ping pong affects innovation.

00;39;39;15 - 00;39;51;22
Maria
And at the end of the day, but consumer getting quality, let alone kosher certified cannabis, what's the impact that this is going to have?

00;39;51;24 - 00;40;11;09
Seth Rutherford
Well, I think that's probably the same for any industry. As you know, desperate times are take people take desperate measures. And so I think that's really the unfortunate fact. And, you know, people need to stay alive. They need to eat, they need to feed their family. And you know, when, when, when, when you get into a situation like that, you know, you you probably at times are putting out the best products.

00;40;11;09 - 00;40;34;21
Seth Rutherford
Do the you know, do those type of reasons. So it's very unfortunate. I think any time you have an affluent business, you know, you know, those type of things are much easier to accomplish. And so you know, it's it's it's it's, it's it's unfortunate where we're, where we are right now, as people are just trying to survive, you know, for two, five, three, you know, we don't break any.

00;40;34;21 - 00;40;52;28
Seth Rutherford
We don't try to break any rules or break any rules, and we really just try to stick with quality. Because as hard as it is to continue to stay on that line, eventually it will pay off. But it's just it's a grind. And, you know, we're edging our name into a piece of stone right now, and we're definitely not done yet.

00;40;52;28 - 00;41;01;09
Seth Rutherford
But you know, if you do it right and you continue to do it right, you will. There will be light at the other side. Nothing lasts forever.

00;41;01;11 - 00;41;26;18
Maria
Yes. And if you have regulations that facilitate and energize and promote your being able to do it right, here's a not so fun fact. Rabbi, you were talking about Los Angeles. There are more weed stores in. Than Starbucks. But, more than 70% of the. Dispensaries are illegal.

00;41;26;21 - 00;41;29;21
Yaakov Cohen
Anything. And there's no crackdown on them.

00;41;29;23 - 00;41;57;06
Maria
Not no crackdown that that's with all the taxes that the legal guys are paying. Their question is, where is the enforcement? Where are those tax dollars going? They're not going into enforcement. And it's I want to try to get Mayor Bass on, and speak and, and just regulators to we're trying to understand why the police. I'm sorry.

00;41;57;06 - 00;42;15;01
Maria
Turn a blind eye. And not to mention it's it's it explains why you your, the biggest legal cannabis companies, valued at up to $3 billion, recently filed for bankruptcy.

00;42;15;03 - 00;42;24;05
Yaakov Cohen
Is there any movements out there as far as that, say, like fixing the regulations, deregulating or anything like that?

00;42;24;07 - 00;43;01;10
Maria
The National Cannabis Industry Association, which could use support it is the National Cannabis Industry Association out of Washington DC. But they have a strong presence in Los Angeles. They're trying, but they have their lobbyists. The multistate operators have their own lobbyists. And the the industry is splintered. So finding guys like Seth and Alan and and yourself who have an interest in high quality premium up to the gold standard of kosher cannabis.

00;43;01;13 - 00;43;05;09
Yaakov Cohen
Heart has to be in at your heart. The heart has to be.

00;43;05;09 - 00;43;06;05
Maria
That's right.

00;43;06;07 - 00;43;08;01
Seth Rutherford
Yes it does. Yeah.

00;43;08;03 - 00;43;34;11
Maria
So speaking of heart, Rabbi, the story behind kosher cannabis. A lot of heart. I'm sorry. Came to you through such a tragedy. With your son. But, can you talk to us about the story of cannabis and maybe some lessons that people in the cannabis industry, one very.

00;43;34;11 - 00;43;58;27
Yaakov Cohen
You know, we had a very there's a very big Hasidic rabbi who lived about 200 years ago. He was 250 years ago. Is this called the Polish Shim Tov? He was like a really big innovator in terms of Jewish practice. He completely just gave us in-depth way that how Judaism can be approached and everybody can have a direct, personal relationship with God.

00;43;59;00 - 00;44;17;00
Yaakov Cohen
And he had one of his followers, was also a tremendous scholar. And he said this about, an interesting question that maybe people of might have contemplated was, if you look at the world and most of the medicines of the world, they come from herbs, correct. Would you say?

00;44;17;03 - 00;44;19;09
Maria
Absolutely, absolutely.

00;44;19;10 - 00;44;47;04
Yaakov Cohen
Listen to this. Where does that come from or why is that so? Okay, so here's a little story. On the third day of creation, we know that God created the world in six days, rested on the seventh and the third day of creation. God created the trees and and the plants and the grasses that day three, day three he created dry land and oceans.

00;44;47;04 - 00;45;09;02
Yaakov Cohen
And then he created the trees with bearing fruit and grasses. Now listen to this. Follow me, follow me, he told the trees. You guys cannot mix the mango tree does not tangle with the avocado, right? No grafting, no mixing, no blending.

00;45;09;05 - 00;45;11;09
Maria
That wasn't very woke.

00;45;11;11 - 00;45;20;27
Yaakov Cohen
No, he wants and he wants a mango to be a pure mango and an avocado. B be a pure avocado. We don't want no avocado. Okay.

00;45;20;27 - 00;45;22;09
Maria
All right, all right.

00;45;22;09 - 00;45;29;24
Yaakov Cohen
Came and came and they started me anyways. The trees were told not to mix the grasses. He didn't say anything to.

00;45;29;26 - 00;45;30;09
Maria
Oh.

00;45;30;13 - 00;45;33;03
Yaakov Cohen
Oh, we didn't tell him.

00;45;33;06 - 00;45;34;18
Maria
Are you serious?

00;45;34;21 - 00;45;42;13
Yaakov Cohen
And the grasses are left with this. What are we supposed to do? Right?

00;45;42;16 - 00;46;09;26
Yaakov Cohen
And so they made this kind of a fiery argument, this kind of logical syllogism argument. They say, well, if trees which are normally separate, they don't really get grow close to each other. And they were told not to mix. So us grasses, which were all over the place, all the more so we shouldn't mix. Okay. So they made this syllogism and conclusion.

00;46;09;26 - 00;46;36;24
Yaakov Cohen
They had a little board meeting, right? Yeah. All in favor. Okay. And they all agreed we're not going to mix. So I says, oh my gosh, you guys came up with that all by yourself okay. And because you guys came up with that all by yourself, I am now going to give you the gift of healing. There's much more a way to explain it, but I'm going to explain it right.

00;46;36;24 - 00;46;53;07
Yaakov Cohen
Just enough for now. So therefore God bestowed upon all the grasses and herbs the gift of healing. Now, the interesting thing is there's this one grass that got a bad rap. Poor little cannabis.

00;46;53;09 - 00;47;17;20
Yaakov Cohen
The stone. The stone that was cast away by the builders becomes the cornerstone. That's the rule. The. The grass that was cast away by the builders becomes the cornerstone. So things that nobody would consider that cannabis would have medicinal purposes. But it has, I think, greater medicinal purposes than ever. Right.

00;47;17;22 - 00;47;22;23
Maria
So and that's why it's such a tragedy that it's trapped in schedule one, because.

00;47;22;24 - 00;47;44;12
Yaakov Cohen
Getting its way, it's finding its way here. Listen, who would ever have thought 30 years ago that this would such a thing would occur when California became legal? It was like a huge like what? Who would ever think right? It had a bad rap, right? And slinger, right, was a J. Paul Getty, was it? Who has it forgot?

00;47;44;12 - 00;48;05;27
Yaakov Cohen
Who was that? Her threat. William Randolph Hearst they gave it a bad rap. Right. But you know, the stone that was cast away by the builders becomes the cornerstone. So you saw those who hang on with heart with lave like the Maccabees did. They had to fight against the Greeks for much more greater or much more numerous. If you want to talk about Hanukkah, okay.

00;48;05;29 - 00;48;21;28
Yaakov Cohen
They had you have to have your heart has to be in it. You have to be coming with a mission of, you know, it helps a lot of people. And that's why I got into the kosher to make it kosher. A lot of people get helped. It helps a lot of people. I get calls, emails all the time.

00;48;22;00 - 00;48;45;15
Yaakov Cohen
Where can I find it? Where I'm here? Where can I get it? So it's it's a, it's a, it's a mitzvah. If it's a med school and you're serving and there's a higher reason, it gives us the strength to go on. Right? Seth Alan, you should be blessed for the strength to continue and be. And God will grant you that strength.

00;48;45;15 - 00;48;58;10
Yaakov Cohen
And you'll continue to be successful. To hold on. There were two places in Massachusetts which I was giving kosher certification to close down. I couldn't hold it, like you said, closing their doors.

00;48;58;13 - 00;49;12;25
Maria
Rabbi, you talked about the medicinal mitzvah. Do you think cannabis can open up spiritual pathways? You know, you talk about the light from above, light from below, and then within in the kitchen.

00;49;12;25 - 00;49;23;20
Yaakov Cohen
I have a question, and I don't I don't have an answer for you, but I have a question. All rabbis are supposed to answer questions with questions, right? Yes, right. Isn't that the rule.

00;49;23;23 - 00;49;25;26
Maria
The Socratic method? Yes.

00;49;25;28 - 00;49;34;10
Yaakov Cohen
Well, you know, if it has a medicinal, why would I make it? Why would God make it psychoactive?

00;49;34;12 - 00;49;36;01
Maria


00;49;36;03 - 00;49;56;13
Yaakov Cohen
You know, if it has to have a medicine and it's going to relieve pain or whatever aches or whatever, help people sleep, why does that have to have a so, you know, I think in the back of my head and I'm just thinking out loud, you know, we have to start. We the world has to start thinking differently.

00;49;56;15 - 00;50;04;26
Yaakov Cohen
And sometimes people are so stuck in their patterns of thinking, which goes into my book. My book has to do with how our thoughts create angels.

00;50;04;29 - 00;50;06;16
Maria
Oh, congratulations.

00;50;06;24 - 00;50;08;16
Seth Rutherford
Congratulations, I it's.

00;50;08;16 - 00;50;28;00
Yaakov Cohen
Called it's called The Jewish Guide to Manifesting. That's the name of the book Jewish Guide to Manifesting. Right. So our patterns of thinking sometimes need to shift. Wouldn't you agree? Sometimes if you're stuck in a problem, you need to see it from a different angle. Once you see it from a different perception.

00;50;28;02 - 00;51;15;12
Maria
That's the whole point of the title of this show. It used to be on the War on drugs. Just Say KNOW. And oh, and I'm trying to say Just Say KNOW, okay? And oh, w there's a Doctor Menashe Gurney's and Robin Carhart Harris's lab at UC San Francisco. He was on episode three, and he was there studying the effects of psilocybin and cannabinoids on the brain and, bio plasticity and and talking about you know, looking into how to break these habitual patterns that do become, ironically, hard wired for some survival reason at some point, but get stuck because the brain wants us to have predictability.

00;51;15;12 - 00;51;31;08
Maria
They want to they want to make it easy for us and go on autopilot. But we get caught in these loops. So I'm so excited about your book. That's, the that's that's it. I think that would solve many, many, many of the problems.

00;51;31;08 - 00;51;50;23
Yaakov Cohen
The world is in that direction anyways. Everybody's shifting and I think people are looking for meaning or meaning these days. So if it helps to give you for a person who needs it to shift to a higher level of thinking for meaning, so then, you know, go for it.

00;51;50;26 - 00;52;09;29
Maria
Yeah. And I'd like to just bring in a segment we have called the Nipped in the Bud where we do myth busting. And I was going to ask Seth this one truth sort of fiction. And you make a bong out of snow.

00;52;10;01 - 00;52;13;13
Yaakov Cohen
Yeah.

00;52;13;15 - 00;52;15;01
Seth Rutherford
Yes you can.

00;52;15;03 - 00;52;22;18
Yaakov Cohen
True, true. Here you. That's a matter of fact. He did it last week.

00;52;22;21 - 00;52;37;12
Seth Rutherford
We did that when we were building the facility back. Way, way back. Yeah, indeed. But before we were licensed, you know, where we are, where? It was a lot of snow. And we and my partner Chris and I did that and took a funny picture of it. So we you definitely, absolutely can do that.

00;52;37;15 - 00;52;45;01
Maria
How much snow how much snow do you need? And walk me through this. I've never smoked from a bong. I've never smoked. But that.

00;52;45;05 - 00;52;46;14
Yaakov Cohen
Was just, you know.

00;52;46;16 - 00;53;00;02
Seth Rutherford
It was like making a snow man. But you know what? We just had to make sure there was a channel that came down and up and, you know, you didn't need any water in it. Chilled the smoke. Nice. Chilled the smoke. Nice for you. So yes you can. It's funny. Yeah.

00;53;00;05 - 00;53;02;15
Yaakov Cohen
Wow, I am enlightening.

00;53;02;17 - 00;53;14;05
Seth Rutherford
We have a passion for cannabis. We you know we've enjoyed the process. As hard as it's been, we've been we've enjoyed every part of the process from, you know, from building the team to building to facilitate operating it.

00;53;14;07 - 00;53;14;29
Maria
Wow.

00;53;15;01 - 00;53;30;21
Seth Rutherford
It's really you just try to, you know, have that culture at two, five, three, where you know, you know, you know, all the all the tough stuff we keep, we keep behind the scenes. So, you know, you know, we really have a nice culture there. So people, you know, people enjoy things like that.

00;53;30;24 - 00;53;49;05
Maria
So in closing, did anyone come up with the punchline to what did you hear about the Broadway producer, the rabbi and the farmer that walked into a bar or walked into a dispensary? Yeah. Anyone got a punchline?

00;53;49;07 - 00;54;00;14
Alan Shorr
Sorry, Maria. I in all candor, I did win the, the British equivalent of a Tony for Best New Comedy a number of years ago. I still can't come up with an answer that's funny. For this one.

00;54;00;17 - 00;54;04;22
Maria
I, I have a few ideas. Unless. Seth, do you have one.

00;54;04;25 - 00;54;08;16
Seth Rutherford
Now, that's not real. That's not my forte. No.

00;54;08;18 - 00;54;33;08
Maria
All right, I think, the the Broadway producers said to the dispensary bartender, do you have something that's going to make me feel like I'm in A Chorus Line and I'm 20 years old and kicking my. I can kick this high. And the bartenders? Well, let me think about it. Farmer says. Do you have anything that's going to put me in the relaxed state?

00;54;33;08 - 00;54;51;19
Maria
And when I'm in my cornfield and the wind is blowing and the breezes and I and I want to feel that way, and the bud tender says, sure, we could hook you up there. And then the rabbi says, I'm just looking to get a little high. I'm.

00;54;51;21 - 00;54;58;07
Maria
All right, I don't know. That's the best I could do.

00;54;58;10 - 00;55;00;22
Seth Rutherford
I like it.

00;55;00;25 - 00;55;17;10
Maria
Thank you for spending your time with us today and Just Say KNOW. This has been an enlightening conversation, touching on the chAlanges, opportunities, and evolving cultural connections surrounding the cannabis industry. Let's recap some key takeaways from today's discussion.

00;55;17;12 - 00;55;18;02
Yaakov Cohen
First.

00;55;18;05 - 00;56;02;20
Maria
We explored the significant barrier that federal illegality presents to cannabis entrepreneurs and operators who are trying to function legally in this legally gray space, including limited access to banking and the burdens of tax provisions like 280. As Alan highlighted, these chAlanges demand creativity, resilience, and a willingness to take on risk that other industries don't face. Yet, as we discuss for those who persevere, there is the potential to shape and industry that is still in its infancy and create lasting change.

00;56;02;22 - 00;56;42;04
Maria
We also delve into the operational chAlanges of owning a vertically integrated dispensary and sustainable farming. Thanks to SEPs Insights, we learned that cannabis is about more than consumption. It's about storytelling, community, and creating safe and responsible products that reflect care and intention. Sets artisanal approach mirrors the sophistication of fine wines and spirits, illustrating that cannabis extends beyond medicinal use and could hold a place in both everyday life and even special celebrations.

00;56;42;07 - 00;57;14;13
Maria
Rabbi Cohen brought us a unique perspective. Unkosher certified cannabis, explaining its importance for inclusivity and its role in broadening the accessibility of cannabis products beyond faith based communities. Kosher certification represents a gold standard for cleanliness, quality, and integrity in cultivation and production. We talked about the connection to Hanukkah traditions and the question of whether cannabis can facilitate deeper spiritual pathways.

00;57;14;18 - 00;57;50;20
Maria
Who was small, fascinating, and thought provoking? As we look forward at the future of cannabis, it's clear that this industry stands at crossroads. Whether it's crafting thoughtful regulations, advocating for normalization and legalization, or simply changing the way people think about cannabis, the decisions we make now, they're going to have ripple effects for generations. To our listeners, remember cannabis is not just a product.

00;57;50;22 - 00;58;30;28
Maria
It's a movement, guys, a culture. And for many, a lifeline. The stories we shared today are proof of the diverse voices working tirelessly to navigate this complex industry and ensure it thrives responsibly. Finally, a heartfelt thank you to our guest, Alan Shorr for your entrepreneurial wisdom, Seth Rutherford for your passion for sustainable agriculture and a responsible premium award winning dispensary.

00;58;31;01 - 00;59;08;14
Maria
Rabbi Yaakov Cohen for your inspiring perspective on inclusivity and tradition, especially as the story of Hanukkah inspires in us all perseverance in the face of adversity. Thank you for tuning in to Just Say KNOW on KCA radio. 10:50 a.m. 106.5 FM. Let's continue to rethink cannabis together. Until next time I'm your host, Maria Galleries. Stay curious, stay informed, stay festive and Just Say KNOW with a K and a W gate o w.

00;59;08;14 - 00;59;40;08
Maria
Happy holidays everybody! Happy and safe. Stay alert, let it glow. Just say know is a greenbeelife presentation airing live weekly on Friday afternoons from 4 to 5 p.m. Pacific on KCAA radio and KCAA TV. Archived audio episodes are on greenbeelife, greenbeelife.com, iHeart Radio, Spreaker and most third party major platforms. For archived videos,

00;59;40;11 - 01;00;14;11
Maria
check them out on GBL TV on greenbeelife, YouTube and Rumble. To follow us! Our Instagram and Facebook is at Just Say Know Radio to apply to be a guest on the show or for sponsorship and advertising opportunities, go to greenbeelife.com/just-say-know and feel free to reach out to me Maria for any questions

01;00;14;14 - 01;00;22;11
Maria
at Maria@greenbeelife.com or (818) 758-6925.