CBD for Pets? Insights from Dr. Tim Shu

Hello. hello. I'm your host, Maria Calabrese. You’re listening to Just Say KNOW, know with a k, k-N-O-W on KCAA Radio coming to you from the Inland Empire and beyond. 1050 AM, 106.5 FM on your dial today we've got a fascinating topic to cover pets and cannabis. Can our furry friends really benefit from the therapeutic properties of cannabis?Kind of.

You bet. But don't take it from me. To help us understand this evolving area, we're going to be joined by internationally recognized Doctor Tim Shu. Tim is the founder of vet CBD. Doctor Shu has a wealth of experience in veterinarian medicine, and a deep understanding of how cannabis can enhance the lives of our animals, from managing anxiety and pain to supporting joint health.

So if you're a pet parent like me, curious about natural alternatives, we’re just interested in how veterinarian science intersects with cannabis. This is an episode packed with insights you're not going to want to miss.

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Welcome back. I'm Maria Calabrese, your host, and you're listening to Just Say KNOW on KCAA radio 10:50 AM., 106.5 FM, or wherever you get your podcast. Today we're talking about CBD for pets, and we're joined by Doctor Tim Shu. He's been featured on the Today Show and PR, CNBC, and in the New York Times. Doctor shoes passion for animal health started at a young age, and he's practiced everything from emergency care to general veterinarian medicine.

And I'm really excited to dive into his knowledge. Welcome, Doctor. Shu Thanks so much for being here with us today.

Thanks for having me. Maria. I appreciate the kind words. Glad to be here.

Tim. No doubt your expertise in veterinarian medicine is extensive, but I have to say I'm really curious about how you expand it. Your knowledge from traditional veterinarian medicine to medical cannabis. Can you share a bit with us about your journey and how you even came upon cannabis?

Yeah, yeah. So I saw how well it worked for people. And for me, it's it's really interesting because I was born and raised in Texas. And so you no, cannabis has been heavily stigmatized in Texas. And so, you know, growing up, my understanding and my knowledge of cannabis was that it was something dangerous, right? Because that's what we saw on TV was that, you know, if you ever smoke a joint, you're done for you.

You might as well just throw your life away.

This is your brain on drugs.

Just sSay KNOW.

No, no is a four letter word.

Plenty of those commercials growing up. And, you know, we growing up in Texas, we heard about people getting arrested for, you know, just, you know, having a joint on them. And, you know, it was just it was a very scary thing. And then, you know, I moved out to California after I graduated from veterinary school. And, you know, I saw how different of an attitude California's perspective on cannabis was.

And so, you know, I took a deep dive into it and, you know, really looked at the potential therapeutic benefits of cannabis and why it was working well in people and why, you know, states like California embraced it so much. Because my, my perspective, my, my philosophical perspective is that, you know, as healthcare practitioners, we really have to explore all therapeutic avenues for our patients, right?

We have to understand the potential of it. And even if there is no benefit, if there is no potential, then we have to say that, okay, we took a very hard look at it. And you know, we don't think there's potential. But, you know, if you take a very hard look at cannabis, you will understand that there is a massive amount of therapeutic potential.

And we're doing our patients and our clients a huge disservice if we don't advocate for them being able to access and use cannabis to improve their lives. You know, whether it's on the human side or the animal side, we have a moral and ethical obligation to be able to advocate to for those patients to be able to incorporate cannabis into their medical regimen.

And so for me, you know, when I was going, when I was in practice, you know, there was certain kinds of medications that we frequently prescribed, you know, pretty much on a daily basis. And some of these medications, I would always have to warn the owners that, you know, signs to watch out for and potential complications with some of these medications are things like GI ulcerations, liver damage, kidney damage.

And you know that that would scare the pet owners, right? You know, they come in for one thing, and now they're concerned that, you know, they got to watch out for something like, you know, kidney damage or liver damage. And so, you know, for for me, it's important that we look at all potential modalities. And if cannabis can be a better use for certain cases, then why not allow patients to be able to utilize that?

You know, we certainly know that, for example, chronic pain can be very difficult to control, and especially given the current medications that are frequently used for chronic pain. But we know that cannabis can be very, very good for chronic pain. So, you know, why let these patients continue to suffer? Why not use cannabis and allow them to live better lives?

Exactly. Look at me. Case in point I've had four major spinal surgeries dating back to 1987, which, coincidentally, was after my first year of law school. So cannabis wasn't even on the table for me. But after my first back surgery, it just kept failing. You know, over the years I faced so many complications, continuous issues, including what you mentioned, GI problems and bleeds.

I mean, g bleeds associated with non-steroidal anti-inflammatory is are responsible for over 100,000 deaths in the US per year. And you know, at the time medical marijuana, that just wasn't an option for me. It felt like something dangerous. I ended up relying on that. Speaking of dangerous opioids, analgesics, non-steroidal anti-inflammatory steroids, nerve pain medications, the list goes on and we don't have enough time.

If I go through the list of all the different medications I had to take to deal with the side effects that eventually caught up with me from these pharmaceutical drugs.

There was such a strong stigma against cannabis that when I decided to dip my toe in the water, I used the same logic for myself that I did for my dogs, even though I saw that the full spectrum helped my dogs. THC marijuana I started with an isolated CBD isolate and as I felt more comfortable, I actually moved to a full spectrum.

And I then even moved to things that have a CBD THC ratio that are only available in legal states at dispensaries. I know I've used it myself in my pets for Managing pain, but I'm also curious about how it helps with things like anxiety or other common triggers like loud noises or separation. What have you seen in your practice?

Yeah, that's you know, you hit on one of the amazing things about cannabis is that it actually has so many different therapeutic uses, a lot of times seemingly completely unrelated benefits, you know. So, for example, you know, we have clients that use it for their pets to control seizures with epilepsy. And then we also have people using it for chronic pain, like you might see with arthritis.

And then also to control noise anxieties because of all the fireworks that are going off.

Really interesting. You know, I can say I've seen firsthand with my older Shepherd that cannabis, particularly full spectrum CBD, helped tremendously. I mean, it's hailed for having shown such promise in treating a variety of conditions in animals, pain management being a big one, especially for older pets with arthritis or joint issues. Now, a lot of our parent listeners, including myself, we're looking for natural ways to help our animals, especially as they get older.

Why don't you explain how cannabis works in animals and a little bit about the different formulations available?

Yeah, sure. You know, so a lot of questions unpack there. But, you know, let's just talk about how cannabinoids in general work within the animal's body. So, you know, cannabinoids will interact with a number of different receptors that are all throughout the body. But they will also act with what's called the endocannabinoid system. And so the endocannabinoid system is a bodily system that is intertwined with all other aspects of our physiology and animals as well, because the endocannabinoid system is found throughout the animal kingdom.

You know, it exists in dogs, cats, horses, ferrets, pigs, birds, you name it. It doesn't exist in insects. But throughout the animal kingdom, especially all vertebrae animals, it's ubiquitously present, and this system consists of the cannabinoid receptors that cannabinoids bind to the endocannabinoids that our own bodies produce. So you and I, you know, your dog, we all produce our own cannabinoids within our body.

And then the third component of the endocannabinoid system is the enzymes that make and break down these endocannabinoids. So what cannabinoids will do is they interact with this endocannabinoid system and the cannabinoid receptors to create therapeutic functions and therapeutic benefits. It also interacts with other receptors that are not a part of the endocannabinoid system to help create these therapeutic benefits.

So CBD is really interesting because it's been listed to interact with over 40 different cellular targets. So not just ones within the endocannabinoid system. You know, one example is that it has been shown to interact with the five H2 one receptors, which are serotonin receptors. And that's hypothesized is that that's one way it helps to decrease anxiety. Going back to your other question about the differences between all the different, you know, plants and products that are out there, when we get down to the basis of it, it's all cannabis.

But, you know, there's a lot of different terminology out there now that gets confusing to a lot of people. You know, what's marijuana and what's hemp. The the easiest way to understand it is that, you know, hemp is now a legal definition. So hemp is cannabis plants that are less than 0.3% THC by dry weight. So when you take the actual plant and you dry it out, if you test it and it has less than 0.3% THC, then that can be classified as hemp.

If it has more than 0.3% THC, then that's technically marijuana. Even though marijuana is an outdated term and we tend to use cannabis on the marijuana side, which gets even more confusing. But for us as a company, we separate it as cannabis and hemp. Even though technically hemp is cannabis. Our vet CBD hemp line available online and non dispensary retail outlets.

Now, when it comes to product formulation, there's a general category that CBD can be. CBD products can be broken down into that's full spectrum products, broad spectrum products and isolate. So starting with the most simple is what we call isolate. So CBD isolate is just 99 plus percent pure CBD. So when you're using that in a formulation, all you're getting is CBD.

You're not really getting any of the other cannabinoids that come from the cannabis plant. So it's pretty much stripped of everything else except just CBD. And then on the other end of that, you have what we call full spectrum products.

And we now know that there's approximately over 120 plus different cannabinoids, not just CBD and THC are only two, but then you've got full spectrum products, which include all the other compounds. Can you explain the difference and why someone might choose one over the other when it comes to their pets?

Well, it gets a little bit more technical than that. There's there's been over 120 different cannabinoids that have been identified. Now, that's not to say that every single plant has all 120 of those cannabinoids, because the largest amount of cannabinoids are found in THC, CBD, CBG, CBC, CBN, and then the other cannabinoids that are found tend to be much, much smaller quantities, if at all.

So, for example, you know, there's a lot of plants out there that are very, very high THC but have very little in terms of any other cannabinoids. And then there's other strains out there that can have a really nice full spectrum, whereas they have, you know, a high amount of CBD, they have some THC, some good amounts of CBC and CBG as well.

So it also depends on the strain that you're working with.

Does VetCBD hemp, for instance, work with any particular strainers drains?

We work with a number of different ones. So what we do is we look at the cannabinoid profile. So, you know, because what we've seen over the years is that, you know, one person calling something blue dream may be something completely different than what another person calls blue dream. Or same thing with AC, DC or Ringo's gift or, you know, Harley Sue.

So what we do is we look at the cannabinoid profile. So whatever the name is, we'll test it and take a look at what cannabinoids test. So that way we know the actual cannabinoids that we're working with. And just rather than just basing it off of the strain.

And that's how you achieve consistency, which is so important when it comes to dosing.

Right. So you know CBD isolate is on one end. And then on the other end you have what's called full spectrum. And so full spectrum does contain small amounts of THC as well as other cannabinoids, usually CBC and CBG and sometimes CBN. And the reason why this is important is because there's been a lot of studies, both preclinical studies in lab animals in petri dishes or test tubes, but also in humans as well that have shown that when using a full spectrum product versus an isolate, you actually get greater therapeutic benefits, you're able to use lower doses, and you can have fewer side effects than compared to using an isolate.

So that's why we use full spectrum products, because you get greater therapeutic benefits from a full spectrum product.

How I really appreciate your explaining that in that way. Doctor Shu there's so much stigma around marijuana or THC or what they're calling now cannabis, which kind of gets under my skin because I don't think marijuana or THC should be validated as a dirty word, but okay, cannabis and it's easy to get caught up in all of that stigma.

But then you hear from experts like yourself and you realize, oh, there's so much more to the story about THC or marijuana, cannabis, whatever we're going to call it. I mean, THC has been vilified for so long. Yet as you dig deeper, you're going to just find out more and more about its value that it actually offers. And then on the other side, there's all the hype around CBD as this miracle product with no THC or only trace amounts or only tiny bits.

And I’ll admit, I bought in. I started my dogs on CBD isolate, thinking it was the safest, the most effective option. And I'm not going to give them THC right? But it turns out it wasn't the best choice for them. So learning from experts about the benefits of full spectrum has been eye opening for me.

Yeah. You know, one of the important things for people to realize is that, you know, THC is not purely just used for recreational purposes in humans. THC does have medicinal value. So it can be very good at helping with things like pain, inflammation, nausea and appetite loss. There's also some research that shows it potentially has anti-cancer benefits that hasn't been as well studied, but certainly for things like pain, inflammation, nausea and appetite loss.

It can be very beneficial. Now when it comes to our animal patients, we do have to be more careful in terms of how much THC we're using. So that's why the formulation, whenever there's THC involved has to be very careful.

Hey, that makes a lot of sense. But when it comes to THC, specifically our animals, dogs in particular, more sensitive to it. Do they have a hypersensitivity or is it more about getting the dosage right? I want to just verify things that I've read saying THC can be more toxic to animals than humans. So is there any truth to that?

And how do you ensure it's safe?

Well, so dogs are going to be more sensitive to THC. And the reason why is they have a higher concentration of CB1 receptors in a part of their brain called their cerebellum. And so, you know, it's with dogs, you have to make sure that you're using the appropriate amount of THC and using it in conjunction with other cannabinoids, because we know, for example, CBD can counter some of the side effects of THC, for example, like the anxiety effects of THC.

But interestingly enough, THC at very, very low doses actually helps to remove anxiety. It's at higher doses that THC starts to can start to generate anxiety. And that's just because the way the different receptors function in different parts of the brain.

That is so interesting. I mean, I never even thought about the interaction of the different cannabinoids until diving in deeper. And.

When you talk about the full spectrum and the interaction between the cannabinoids, the impact the THC has on the CBD, I it makes me think of it's the difference of taking a vitamin C supplement, which is just vitamin C extracted and purely vitamin C, right? And the difference between that and in an entire orange. Whereas if you eat the entire orange, then the vitamin C is being combined with and impacted by all of the other phytonutrients, not to mention all of the other phytonutrients you're receiving.

So whole plant medicine that includes THC is not the devil's weed. So I really appreciate the opportunity. Speaking with experts like yourself, because what you're saying is, is fact based and backed by science, it seems like the science is getting better. Would you say with the proliferation of legalization, we're moving the ball forward a little bit in that department?

I remember I'm sure you you remember when it seemed we had to rely solely on preclinical data, preclinical studies. But from whenever I speak to you, I get heartened because it seems like the information has some more concrete data. Would you say that's true?

Yeah. You know, what's really interesting is that there has been a lot of preclinical research. You know, what that means is in lab animals. You know, petri dishes and things like that. You know, since the 60s. Now we are starting to see more clinical trials in humans and animals as well. Now, especially since the 2018 farm bill passed.

Now, with increasing legalization, we'll start to see more and more of these clinical trials that will start to back up the benefits that we've seen anecdotally across the board in both humans and animals for the past few decades.

That is so exciting and hopeful. So we've covered the differences between CBD isolate and full spectrum, but what can still be a bit confusing, at least to me, is this middle ground. What exactly is broad spectrum? I see that term marketed a lot, and it's not always clear what sets it apart from full spectrum or from isolate. I mean, other than some manufacturers are touting that unlike full spectrum, it has still has THC, but it has trace amounts that are non detectable in a drug test, which is important to humans depending on what state they live in and job they have.

I don't know if that's a distinction that's as important for animals, but yeah, what sets it apart? Broad spectrum from full spectrum.

Yeah. So broad spectrum is essentially the THC taken out. So, you know, broad spectrum, it's done through a chemical process in which the THC is removed out of full spectrum. Now a lot of times what happens is when that THC gets removed, we see a lot of other the of the other minor cannabinoids like CBC and CBG tend to drop out as well.

There are some improved techniques out there now that preserve some of those minor cannabinoids like CBC and CBG. But generally what happens is broad spectrum is somewhere in the middle between isolate and full spectrum. What it does is it strips out some of those cannabinoids, like THC.

I love speaking to you. I learned so much, and it's because you explain things in such a clear, concise and easy to understand accessible way. There's no getting lost in the weeds with you. Pardon the pun, I couldn't resist. And now, a word from our sponsor.

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You're listening to KCAA 10:50 AM 106.5 FM on your dial. And now back to the show. Each week, we like to share consumer tips and insights on how to choose a quality product for our listeners. So I'd love to ask you, what are some key tips, for instance, that we should keep in mind when we're looking at labels?

Sure. So, you know, one of the things is that you want to understand who's behind the product, right? Is is it veterinarian formulated? Do they have veterinarians on staff that provide input into the formulation, into all the ingredients? You know, so for us, I formulate all the products. And then we also have veterinary nurses on staff too because for you know for pet owners this is something that is therapeutic.

It's meant to improve the quality of life of their pets. And so being able to get good customer support when they need it is one of the most important things for us. And so that's why we have a team of veterinary nurses on staff. So that way when anyone emails us or calls us, they're able to talk to veterinary professionals.

And if they want to talk to me, I'm more than happy to talk to them. I call call owners all the time just to educate them about cannabinoids. So, you know, being able to understand the formulation process and the the customer support process is something that's really important. But also being able to access things like a certificate of analysis, because what a lot of studies have shown over the years is that because CBD on the hemp side is not very regulated.

And so what that means is that there's no testing requirements.

Testing requirements on the CBD hemp side, right.

On the cannabis side, it's very, very different story.

Do you think that will change anytime soon?

I think so, but you know, it really remains to be seen. It's a it's a big question, but we know that on the cannabis side of things it's a complete difference. So just to give you an example, on the cannabis side of things, what we do is we do more than what's required. So basically in terms of what's required for every cannabis product in California, is the final batches have to be tested for potency so that whatever's on the label is accurately reflected in the product.

And then it also has to be tested for heavy metals, pesticides, solvents, microbial like E.coli and salmonella, and then also mycotoxins. And what we do is we go a step beyond that. We do a triple testing procedure. So we also test the raw ingredients that we use. So it's the cannabis extract, the organic extra virgin olive oil that we use.

We test all of those for things like pesticides, microbial solvents and heavy metals to make sure that we're only dealing with clean material. And then during the manufacturing process, we'll do a potency check on it to make sure that whatever is being produced is actually what's going to match up on the label. And then once everything's bashed up and finalized, then it'll go for that final compliance test, which means again, it'll get tested for potency heavy metals, microbial solvents, pesticides and mycotoxins.

So we test over and over and over to make sure that we get clean, safe, consistent product. And we do this on hemp side as well. We've taken our SOP from the cannabis side of things and implemented on the hemp side of things. So that way we go in above and beyond to make sure that again, we're only dealing with clean, safe, consistent material.

Clean, safe and consistent comes down to a label that reflects and backs with testing and good manufacturing practices, the purity and the potency of the product. You want to be able to discern that if it says it has this much CBD in it, it has that much CBD in it, and that if it says it has this much THC in it, it has truly only that much, or at least that much.

And we don't want to be having pesticides and microbial. And so you want to see that it's been tested for contaminants. All right. Well, Tim, honestly, it sounds like the, the the manufacturing and testing practices that vet CBD hemp employs, I don't think the organic strawberries I eat would pass, just saying.

Right, exactly. Yeah. In the license regulated cannabis market that that those cannabis products are tested and regulated and are cleaner than the food and the water that we drink every day.

Cannabis is a vital adjunct therapy, sometimes even a better option when Western medicine runs out of options. That said, we do have to consider the potential side effects. Have you seen anything clinically concerning with cannabis use in animals? You know, aside from the risks of overdoing it with the THC?

Yeah. So, you know, CBD is not completely side effect free. Now, fortunately, the potential side effects of CBD are very, very mild, you know, and this can happen for humans and animals as well. So side effects of CBD are upset. So they can have diarrhea or soft stools. They can also get sleepy or feel fatigued okay. So you know now when you compare that side effect profile to a lot of the other side effect profiles of common medications, like you mentioned before, you know, from a clinicians perspective that is far, far safer than a lot of the traditional pharmaceuticals that we tend to utilize on a daily basis.

But that's something to be aware of is that, you know, CBD can have these potential side effects, even though they tend to be mild and are fairly negligible.

So relatively mild and negligible compared to some of the side effects associated with the pharmaceutical alternatives to treat the same ailments. All right. Now we're ready for one of my favorite segments. We're going to grow our know everybody with our expert doctor Tim Shu So Tim we've talked about potential side effects. We've talked about dosing now prior to the proliferation of more scientific research.

There's been a lot of this information has been based on evidence. So what is the science saying? What is the research saying.

Right, right. Yeah. And so so dosing is something that's really important. And that's why for dosing we always tell people to start low and then gradually work their way up based on the clinical signs or based on the response that they're seeing, because the dose is actually going to vary from patient to patient and for use to use.

So we send some interesting cases where, you know, we have two dogs that are about the same size that are using it for the same condition, but the amount that they're using is different. You know, 1st May need it only once a day, 1st May need it twice a day. And some of the studies out there that have shown differences in terms of absorption rates.

So for example, it's really interesting. There was one study that showed that there was dogs that, you know, even though they got the same dose, some dogs had five times the absorption rate that other dogs did. And so this just goes to show you that the dosing needs to be done on an individualized basis. We have general guidelines that go by body weight.

But what we always tell people is start at a lower level and then gradually increase that dose until you're seeing the optimal benefits from it. So the key that we're aiming for is we're trying to use the lowest dose that provides the maximum benefits.

What I really appreciate about your approach to dosing is you're honest. We start low and go slow, start low, see what your dog tolerates even in yourself, and then gradually increase as tolerated to the desired effect. That's fantastic. And even a lot of the data is showing that this is individualized medicine. What works and one dog doesn't work in another.

So psych in humans. Some people are super sensitive to medication. Other people, it doesn't hit them as hard.

Did you want to talk about some of the other uses of cannabis?

Sure. Yes. Oh, good. You have time on your packaging. It mentioned that your product supports normal brain function. It also touched on its use for dogs with epilepsy and seizures. When I first saw the normal brain function indication, I didn't immediately connect that to those specific conditions. It seems like you have general claims about supporting mobility, brain functioning, GI health, but can you just elaborate on how your products specifically addresses conditions like seizures and epilepsy?

Yeah. So, you know, this is one of the most common questions is what can cannabis be used for? Right. Because people are familiar with cannabis use recreationally in humans. But even in terms of medical uses for cannabis and humans, people don't really know that much about it, much less so when it comes to animals. So one of the most common questions is what can cannabis be used for in animals?

And so I got this question so much, I came up with an acronym to help people remember more easily. And so the acronym is pains. So spell pains. And what it stands for is it stands for pain, anxiety, inflammation nausea and appetite loss and seizures. So that's not to say that those are the only things that cannabis can be used for, but those are the most commonly seen ailments that cannabis is able to benefit.

An appetite loss. That's one I didn't even realize cannabis could be used for, but it actually ties to the Compassion Care Act. When medicinal marijuana went online in California due to the appetite loss caused by chemotherapy and Aids victims were suffering from. So makes total sense. I have to say, though, when our senior dog was facing that issue, full spectrum was the only thing that had helped me.

But I want to caution listeners my point of entry was a CBD isolate and that didn't work. Don't give up, don't give up, and don't be intimidated by the broader the full spectrum at the time for me, brought in full spectrum products weren't even available online or in retail stores. You had to go to a dispensary and oh my God, I found that so intimidating.

Everyone should have the the pleasure of going into a licensed dispensary. A lot of people have this, you know, this older notion of what a dispensary is.

I went to my first dispensary.

It was very disorienting and.

That's.

Not comfortable.

My body was reacting. Gosh, I know, I know sees me. And how should I be doing this? And oh my God, you've got the armed guard. You're giving your ID. Oh, they don't take credit cards that the ATM, the funky looking ATM machine in the corner. And then you get past all of that and you're in a very nurturing environment.

It's like an old apothecary, not the corporate CVS environment, but I felt that a loss. What's an ace? How do you even were it? Would you like to spell this? No, it was awkward. It was very awkward.

But in a legal marketplace, I mean, these dispensers, some of the most gorgeous storefronts that you've seen. So I do encourage everyone to, to visit their local dispensary. You know, a lot of people put a lot of time and effort and they put their heart into it. And, you know, it's the cannabis community is a wonderful community. And the the licensed dispensers are just beautiful dispensaries.

You they are like Apple stores. Do you provide support and education for the Bud tenders?

Right? Right. Yeah. So staff training is something that we really focused heavily on.

Nice, nice. It's very important to choose and support dispensaries that work with brands and manufacturers who offer the education and support to their staff. Good, good. Now you have a hemp line available online and in retail stores. Also available at green.

Com on the hemp side of things, we are also doing full spectrum. But the amount of THC is less so, you know, because of the way the hemp plant grows and because of the way the cannabinoids are extracted. So it does have small, small amounts of THC in there. But our hemp line is online at CBD hemp and then also through non dispensary retailers as well.

That's great that the hemp line is available online and in accordance with the farm bill, at least at this point in time. They're allowing online and in retail spaces hemp that has up to 0.3% THC. We're dealing with rules and regulations, but now the full spectrum hemp derived CBD products online that are more CBD to take sometimes work as well.

So you have to check it out for yourselves. And that's why I think it's really important we build a community where we can gather anecdotal evidence and share it. Hearing people share their experiences with different products and ratios and their various applications is invaluable. For example. I had no idea that your product could help with anxiety during loud noises.

I had it sitting on my counter for joint pain for my older German Shepherd, and never thought to try it for the purpose of the anxiety land noises caused in her. So speaking of loud noises, fireworks for instance, do you have any general tips for pet owners on how to keep their pet safe during loud noises? If their dogs anxiety is triggered and they tend to dash for the door?

Besides using CBD or cannabis, what advice do you have? This is an important topic for for things like microchipping in case pets get anxious and want to run away.

Yeah. So that's you know, that's something that's really, really important is that July 5th is actually the busiest time of year for animal shelters. And the reason why is because the night before, all the animals are trying to run away from the fireworks noise. And so July 5th tends to be the busiest time of year. And so, you know, one of the most important things is to make sure that, you know, things like your your fences and your gates and your doors are secured.

And then also to make sure that you have proper identification on your pets and whether that's in the form of tags and collars or microchip, so that that way they have your information, your address and their your phone number. So that that way if your pet does get out and they are able to pick up your pet, they can at least, you know, find out who the right owner is and get your pet back to you.

So, you know, those things are very, very important. You know, other things that you can do is also, you know, things like behavioral modification, positive reinforcement. I think one thing that's really important is to understand the animal's mentality. A lot of times when people see that their their pets are afraid, they will tend to, you know, talk to them in a in a really soothing voice and then to try to give them treats to to calm them or relax them.

But this can actually have the reverse effect, because in essence, what they may be thinking is that you're rewarding them for that fearful behavior. And so what I would encourage people to do is talk to a veterinary behaviorist. There are actually board certified veterinary behaviorists out there that deal with all kinds of behavior issues, especially with noise anxiety, to help them understand, you know, the steps that they can do to help their pet be a little bit less afraid of things like, you know, fireworks, loud noises and things like that.

But just to just kind of help people understand, want to understand, you know, what effective positive reinforcement looks like?

That's true. A lot of veterinarians may not fully understand animal behavior or take a holistic approach like you do. We went to an animal behaviorist, recommended desensitizing our dog that was terrified of loud noises by exposing her, gradually rewarding her tolerance along the way. It was comforting to positively reinforce her when she was freaking out to us, but very counterproductive for her.

So, like cannabis low and slow. Tim, I could talk to you forever, but we're going to have to wrap before we wrap the one very important thing. We have a legal updates section, and I wanted to talk to you about the legality. I mean, can I get CBD for my pets from my veterinarian? So can you touch on the political landscape surrounding the issue and what that veterinarians can or cannot do?

It seems like there's been a lot of oversights in the legislation, where in medical marijuana states, privileges afforded to physicians or osteopaths that apply to humans, it just weren't thought about in the legislation to apply to animals.

Yeah. You know, it's it's a tricky issue about where where, you know, cannabis and hemp are in terms of the animal side of things, you know, human physicians have, you know, more protection. But in California, we are leading the country in terms of allowing vets to take part in the picture. So in 2018, 8B-2215 got passed in California.

And what that allowed for is allow for veterinarians to be able to discuss cannabis with their clients. The issue with it is that it didn't allow for recommendation with their clients. Now, granted, it's a term of art, and in the term in the in the law, it actually means a written recommendation the way that the physicians would write for their clients.

But, you know, unfortunately, the way that it's interpreted, many have interpreted it to mean that, you know, they can't even verbally recommend cannabis. And so that's another bill that we're working on, which will actually allow for veterinarians to make recommendations in terms of cannabis products. And so that will help complete the picture. And that will really help California lead the country.

And really, quite frankly, the world in terms of the integration of veterinarians into cannabinoid therapeutics.

Leading the world in terms of the integration of veterinarians into cannabinoid therapeutics is crucial. And indeed, on the path you are forging. Did you know that CBD leads the way in California's progressive pet health care legislation?

In 2018, vet CBD helped pass Assembly Bill AB 2215, allowing veterinarians to discuss cannabinoid therapy with clients. This legislation enabled informed decision making in pet healthcare, giving pet owners alternative treatment options with professional guidance. But the story doesn't end there. In 2022, vet CBD continued its advocacy efforts and helped pass Assembly Bill AB 1885, allowing veterinarians to take the next step and recommend cannabinoid therapeutics when they deem it appropriate for their patients health.

These legislative wins showcase VetCBDs dedication to advancing pet health and ensuring access to safe, effective treatments. Stay informed, stay engaged and together with vetCBD, let's continue to advocate for the best possible care for our beloved pets.

We just thank you so much. And it's it's just for anyone interested in becoming involved in supporting these efforts, please go to green believe we have plenty of advocacy materials, and we'll keep you up to date on what's happening in the world with veterinarians and how you could be involved in your state. I say it again and again.

It's so important to know the issues, know how they impact you so that you're voting based on your value system, not against what will work for you.

We appreciate your support and glad you're finding comfort for yourself as well.

We have a backwards we're using life drugs, morphine, advanced.

Narco opioids to deal with chronic conditions that sometimes their onset is in people. Like when it happened, for me, it was in my early 20s. It's not sustainable. So it's it's it's just backwards cannabis to deal with chronic conditions, especially when their onset is at an earlier age, is a godsend for many people. But understanding that this is it is a medicine plant and it's individualized medicine.

We've we've touched on so many great topics today. Tim, is there anything else, though, that you'd like to add that we didn't discuss? I'm sure this is just the beginning. We could easily do a whole series of interviews with you, and I know you'll be back.

Yeah, I think we we covered a lot. And if anyone has any further questions, you know, like I said, we have veterinary nurses on staff, so you can always email us info at you can always call us (562) 754-3713. And more than happy to talk to, you know, pet owners. Sometimes we talk to their veterinarians because their veterinarians want a little bit more clarification on cannabis and CBD and hemp.

The other thing that I also offer is I have a 1.5 hour continuing education webinar for veterinarians and registered veterinary technicians, so that that way they can learn about cannabis, the clinical applications of cannabis, and they can actually get continue education credit for it as well.

Are you finding veterinarians open to it?

Embracing it. Yeah. Because, you know, it's really interesting. They're they're seeing their clients come in and talk to them about how cannabis and about how CBD has been beneficial for their pets.

Seeing is believing, right?

So so when they see that for themselves, you know, then they become really curious and they want to learn more about it.

That's exactly right. That's what happened for me. And I've not encountered as many medical doctors who are as open or willing to discuss cannabis as veterinarians are. It's interesting, especially considering that we're in a state where it began legally, medicinally, all the way back in 1996. But there's still a fear, a divide. It's still federally prohibited. But it's encouraging because pets can serve as a gateway for their owners, their veterinarians, to learn more about cannabis.

For me, my journey with cannabis began with my dog. It changed my life. I started an entire platform Green Bee Life to connect experts with listeners with innovative brands.

Yeah, we've seen that. We've seen actually seeing pet owners initially utilize cannabis for their pets. And they said, you know what I mean? I have some of these same symptoms too, or my family members have some of these same symptoms too. And, you know, we see that cannabis can be very beneficial. And it's not, you know, just, you know, snake oil or, you know, we're not just making this up.

And, you know, so they see the proof is in the pudding and they see how well it works for the pets. And then they start using it for themselves to improve their own lives.

Thank you so much for joining us today, Doctor Shu. We appreciate your sharing your insights and look forward to changing the way the world sees green one conversation at a time. We're looking forward to having you back.

Thanks for having me, Maria.

Today I'm going to share some basic guidelines.

On how to determine the Proper amount of CBD to add when making homemade dog treats for your fur baby. To get started, you want to make sure you have a good quality CBD tincture. For today's recipe, I chose to use CBD Hemp Tincture because it's ethically sourced from USA grown hemp. It's veterinarian formulated. It's an NHS quality seal, which means they're operating with some pretty high standards.

It comes unflavored and it's available in three strengths. I've had great results giving it to my senior German shepherd Roxy for terrible skin allergies, anxiety and pain management in general. I'd say I'm a savvy consumer, but I morph into a due diligence queen when it comes to sourcing products for my pets and our hive. All right, now that we have our hemp boil, we're going to need a benchmark, a general guideline for a starting dose.

I found conflicting information online and pretty much everywhere when it came to recommended amounts as high as one milligram and even higher per pound of your pet's body weight. It was very confusing and concerning. So I was finally able to find a reasonable consensus and tapped into my veterinarian resources to verify the conservative 2 to 2.5 milligrams of CBD per 10 pounds of your pet's body weight, training up as needed and tolerated.

Now, it's important to always consult with your veterinarian for personalized dosing or titrated up advice based on your pet's weight, size, breed, and individual health needs. One thing to keep in mind with store bought cookies is most start at a five milligrams per treat serving, which can be limiting if you have a smaller dog than all they get is a little nibble.

Today's recipes shape and size will yield about 50 servings. I'm going to use 125mg in order to get a 2.5mg serving per treat. No and go.

Thank you for tuning in to this week's episode of Just Say KNOW. That's KNOW with a K., with me your host Maria Calabrese. So I really hope you found my conversation with veterinarian doctor Tim Shu about pets and cannabis enlightening and empowering. Remember, knowledge is key when it comes to the health and well-being of our furry friends. If you have any questions or topics you'd like us to cover in future episodes, feel free to reach out to me personally.

Until next time, take care and give your pets and yourselves some extra love.

Just Say KNOW is a greenbeelife presentation airing live weekly on Friday afternoons from 4 to 5 p.m. Pacific on KCAA radio and KCAA TV. Archived audio episodes are on greenbeelife, greenbeelife.com, iHeart Radio, Spreaker and most third party major platforms. For archived videos, check them out on GBL TV on greenbeelife, YouTube and Rumble. To follow us!

Our Instagram and Facebook is at Just Say KNOW Radio to apply to be a guest on the show or for sponsorship and advertising opportunities, go to greenbeelife.com/just-say-know and feel free to reach out to me Maria for any questions. I’m at Maria@greenbeelife.com or call me at (818) 758-6925.

In 2018, CBD helped pass Assembly Bill AB 2215, allowing veterinarians to discuss cannabinoid therapy with clients. This legislation enabled informed decision making in pet healthcare, giving pet owners alternative treatment options with professional guidance. But the story doesn't end there. In 2022, vet CBD continued its advocacy efforts and helped pass Assembly Bill AB 1885, allowing veterinarians to take the next step and recommend cannabinoid therapeutics when they deem it appropriate for their patients health.

These legislative wins showcase Vet CBDs dedication to advancing pet health and ensuring access to safe, effective treatments. Stay informed, stay engaged and together with vet CBD, let's continue to advocate for the best possible care for our beloved pets.

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